The Saint Augustinian

The LORD is full of grace and mercy!

2009-04-17T18:10:00.000-07:00

We are grateful to all who prayed for gadfly j and his wife through this difficult time. I have not provided the details of Joey's condition per his wife's request. But I can say they are humbled by the LORD's grace and the intercession of the saints. They see the invisible hand of God providentially working all this to His own glory, and the living testimony that the Holy Spirit has made them for the cause of Christ. May the Lord be praised for His glorious grace and mercy.

"And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me. Therefore I take pleasure in infirmities, in reproaches, in necessities, in persecutions, in distresses for Christ’s sake: for when I am weak, then am I strong." (2Cor. 12:9-10)

Double Standards Continue at Biblical Thought

2009-04-02T15:45:00.000-07:00

I've been following some of the activity at BT in their comments about those of us that have been exposing Bob Morey. I've been fascinated by the thought provoking statements made by our moreyite brothers.

H8n S8n
Note to Stephen:I will not be offended if you do not post this^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^As some of you know, I am on the very small team who worked for3 years gathering the info for The Senate to go after the “Grassley 6″. The first post from me here is the Grassley press-release. It was a direct result of our monitoring, that led to my interview by Frank Pastore, on Todd Bentley.
Roughly 2-3 years ago, these bloggers were claiming Dr. Bob sold the Irvine building, hid the money, and continued to raise funds for the building. In less than 10 minutes, I was able to confirm from online Orange County public records, the church still owned the building, and all taxes were paid. The fools lied about something easily refuted by public records!
It takes a lie to cover up a lie, so you know what happened next. More lies.

It is true that there are many speculations made by some that are easily refuted but do not apply to the statements made by all Morey's critics.

All these claims of “embezzlement” and no court cases filed anywhere. I know this, because we looked. It took about a week ofscrambling up the searches with various names & FBN/DBA etc.Nothing.

Did he look for Morey's filed court cases against the Wessels brothers too? Or is this objection applicable to everyone other than Morey. It was Morey who wrote a letter to the IRS claiming the Wessels embezzled money from REF. It was Morey who put out mailings asking for money because of the alleged embezzlement done by the Wessels brothers. This is clearly a double standard, this same complaint can be laid at Morey's feet. The Wessels brothers had to go through an IRS investigation in order to clear their names from any wrong doing. After their names were cleared, Larry contacted the IRS to investigate Robert Morey, Larry assumed that the IRS would take action. This is all explained in the videos available at yahoo, google, and youtube rendering this comment irrelevant to the REF scandal. If the Crown Publications Scandal with George Bonneau is being referenced, then the documentation provided below must have been missed.

1. CROWN PUBLICATIONS, INC. AGREEMENT OF COMPROMISE

2. CROWN PUBLICATIONS, INC. BOOK AGREEMENT

3. CROWNE PUBLICATIONS, INC Case

4. CROWNE PUBLICATIONS, INC. George Bonneau Writes To Larry Wessels

5. CROWNE PUBLICATIONS, INC. Is Dissolved In Good Standing

6. CROWNE PUBLICATIONS, INC. LETTERS

7. CROWNE PUBLICATIONS, INC. Morey's Complaint Dismissed

8. CROWNE PUBLICATIONS, INC. VS. DR. ROBERT A. MOREY

9. Robert Morey's Letter To The IRS Accusing George Bonneau of Crown Publications of Criminal Theft

Well, to be fair? We may have missed South Carolina and Montana.Some states web-sites are difficult to navigate.
I wanted to have our team investigate because of the many bloggers claims did not balance on the scale with my six years of personalexperience with Dr. Bob. Ex:About 2001-2, Dr. Bob was on the radio and asking for support.I sent him a letter with a offering. Dr. Bob read my letter on the air,PRAISING the person who sent a “$2 Offering”
For me? I could not balance this with what I read from the bloggers.
However? I do understand how some can get caught up in the lies.Not everyone on the block knows how to check tax-liens, civil cases,FBN’s and such, that are available through public records.
Should we pray they are rewarded according to their works?
I’m H8n S8n !
Mar 18th, 2009

It's interesting because these "claims did not balance" with people like Mike Stephens (Morey's former radio producer) or Clark Gallagher (Morey's former assistant). And yet now they do. The comment that stood out to me the most was the one posted by Sir Aaron below.

Sir Aaron
H8n S8n and others:
Because I am a federal investigator, Dr. Morey recently asked for my personal opinion on the ongoing ravings of these miscreants. He sent me some materials related to some specific accusations to review. I reviewed his materials and downloaded the various documents that the other side posted on various websites. I looked at both sides very critically. Honestly, I felt the review was completely unnecessary. The accusations made against Dr. Morey are so absurd that the falsity was apparent on the surface. If I had received such accusations in my professional capacity, I would have dismissed them out of hand for being preposterous and nonsensical.

Really, I wonder if Sir Aaron's "critical" review included contacting Larry Wessels to hear his side of the story in obedience to Prov. 18:17. I also wonder if this federal investigator considered the conclusions of the late Hank Kitchen's (former CSI investigator and REF contributor) on this case. Robert Morey himself referred to Kitchen as a great researcher.

But even if the patently slanderous accusations were true, the accusers are still guilty of grossly unscriptural behaviour of the worst kind.
Why not rather suffer wrong? Why not rather be defrauded?
Bearing with one another, and forgiving each other, whoever has a complaint against anyone; just as the Lord forgave you, so also should you
Just a couple examples that came to mind this time of the morning.
Mar 19th, 2009

Here he rebukes us and accuses us of "patently slanderous accusations" and being guilty "of grossly unscriptural behaviour of the worst kind." These are serious accusations that Sir Aaron throws our way without providing any evidence that we are guilty of such things. It is ironic that he speaks of "forgiveness" while calling us "miscreants" referring to our work as "ongoing ravings," "slander," "preposterous and nonsensical," and "so absurd that the falsity was apparent on the surface". Stephen Macasil of BT responded to the only person making any sense (on this issue anyway) on Mat. 18 as it relates to this issue.

But we cannot issue the free pass to everyone and anyone all the time and in all situations. This is where I think the issue hinges. If ignorance can warrant a temporary pass and excuse certain unbiblical behavior, then what shall we do with those that are not ignorant? If it is clear that an awareness of God’s precepts are possessed by a professing Christian, then they should be held at a much higher level of accountability than the truly ignorant professing Christian. I certainly hope that all would agree with this.
So to discard Matt. 18 (or any relevant text) as legalism and render the “technically unbiblical” actions of professing Christians as somehow valid, may apply to the ignorant, but not to the knowledgeable. This distinction then rules out many of Morey’s opposers since he has clean hands having preached these things with bombastic emphasis time and time again *to them* over the span of his career. He has also written on the subject. This makes them accountable for their actions as they are bound by the Word. No longer can one plead ignorance (which still doesn’t excuse before God).

However what these commentators fail to see is that Mat. 18 was followed in the case of the Wessels brothers. Both the Wessels and the Moreys signed the AGREEMENT OF THE PARTIES legal document (with their lawyers present) that stated that Christ Memorial Baptist Church would be the arbitrator. To resolve the matter CMBC made their Arbitration Board Declarations ruling in favor of the Wessels brothers. And even after this matter was resolved Morey continued to spread the story that the Wessels had stolen REF funds. But given all these documented facts, we are the ones who are told to repent of our sin by our fellow moreyite brothers. We continue to call them brothers in the Lord and yet they call us "runners," "talkers," "apostates," fleshly," gossipers," "slanderers," etc.... But we are the ones with the ungodly behaviour that need to repent of our sins. They can accuse us of anything sin without any proof, but we cannot provide evidence of Morey's actions towards others. That is a double standard, we ask the Lord to please open the eyes and ears of the moreyites at BT. May God richly bless them in their journey to truth.

We ask our readers to continue to pray for Joey and his wife through this difficult time.

URGENT PRAYER REQUEST!

2009-03-24T16:28:00.000-07:00

We urgently ask for the intercession of the saints right now for Joey "Gadfly J" Enriquez and his wife. They are going through a difficult time and are in need of God's grace.

Second Letter Concerning Robert Morey of "Faith Defenders" Sent By U.S. Justice Department‏

2009-03-05T10:22:00.001-08:00

This is an email recently sent out by Larry Wessels on the status of the FBI investigation on Bob Morey.

From: Larry Wessels

Sent: Wed 3/04/09

Dear Friends & Observers,

I have now received a second letter from the United States Department of Justice which I just received in the mail a couple of days ago concerning Robert Morey of "Faith Defenders" (also going under the name of "Research & Education Foundation"). The letter is attached to this e-mail. Those of you who are not familiar with the first letter I received from the U.S. Department of Justice or the District Attorney of Orange County, California can go to my blog article on Robert Morey's criminal activities or reference it at the Morey links page along with other research material on this situation by others. I also recommend Ron Hodgman's True Faith Defender, True Faith Defender's Blog, & Self-Feeder Christian Blog on the Internet for interesting analysis of this situation.

As many of you are aware Morey is beating a hasty retreat out of California & is "supposedly" going to New York. Morey just held a final service at his California "church" to "celebrate" his "retirement" on March 1 (see the secular publication "OC Weekly: Robert Morey Retires - Praise the Lord!" for a report about this on the MOREYLINKS page). Currently Morey is under investigation by various law enforcement agencies with this latest attached letter mentioning that the "Economics Crimes Unit" of the Federal Bureau of Investigation will be looking into Morey's "possible mail fraud scheme perpetrated by the identified organization." This is just one of the criminal investigations Morey has to worry about (don't forget about the California Department of Corporations or the Internal Revenue Service among others). "New York" may not be far enough away to escape all the trouble he has coming his way.

None of this is a surprise to me since once he cashed in his "Faith Defenders" building in Irvine, California for millions of dollars, it was obvious that it was time for him to "take the money & run." When this whole bizarre scenario of greed & avarice is finally over we'll see where Morey & his "church building money" end up.

For additional reference on the 1990s "REF scandal" check out:

Dr. Robert A. Morey Exposed!

Dr. Robert A. Morey Exposed! PDF

Complete video evidence on yahoo, google, and youtube.

Stay close to the Lord during these evil days,

Larry Wessels
1 Peter 3:15

Why Have We Done This?

2009-03-03T11:23:00.000-08:00

When my first article "Why Are So Many Christians Attacking Dr. Robert Morey?" was published on May 24th, 2008 I had two goals in mind:

1. To warn and inform potential Morey victims in his church and ministry.
2. To remind and exhort those who had known of the previous scandals to speak out and warn others.
The Lord has blessed our work in helping prevent some from being spiritually, emotionally, and financially harmed by Morey. Recently Morey's ministry put out announcement regarding Morey's retirement from pastoral ministry.

Sent: Saturday, February 14, 2009 8:32:05 AMSubject:
Announcement for March 1st
Dear Church Family, The last service of Faith Community Church will be held at 1:00PM on March 1st where Dr Morey will officially retire from pastoring. Pastors, members and friends of the church who have been blessed by Dr Bob’s radio program, books, tapes, CD’s, DVD’s, sermons and counseling are welcome to this celebration service. Join us in the Agape Feast to follow afterwards at 3:00PM. We will have a book table of Dr Bob’s resources available for purchase at 50% discount and can be autographed. A special “retirement love offering” will be taken. “ The laborer is worthy of his wages” 1 Timothy 5:18b Heather Terry webmaster of Faith Community Churchcontact info@faithcommunityoc.com

This announcement brings relief and raises suspicion about Morey's motivation for leaving with the legal complaints against him. Or he could just open up a restaurant and be a chef like he has talked about in the past (for those that don't know Morey is a great cook). At BT it was stated "The Lord has called him back to NY with his family.." We suspect that he might try to start another ministry and continue to hurt other Christians. When Morey had his past scandals he could move to another state where many would not have heard of his scandals and give his side of the story presenting himself as one that overcomes the Satan's Devices. But with the Internet exposure on him he is now at a disadvantage, and will find it more difficult. All you have to do is do a search on his name on youtube, google, yahoo, and others to see what I'm talking about. The moreyites have now commented on Morey's farewell sermon at FCCOC on March 1st giving him a Pauline farewell like that of the Ephesians in Acts 20:27.

“For I Did Not Shrink From Declaring To You The Whole Counsel Of God.” Act 20:27
Mario Herrera
This was part of the message our Pastor, Dr. Robert Morey taught on as our service closed at Faith Community O.C. It was a great gathering of saints who have been touched by the life of a man who has been and will continue to be determined, along with his wife and children, never to compromise the truth of the gospel of grace. Pastor Justin Alfred, Dr. Armstrong of Calvary Temple, Pastor Glen Leatherman, Doyle Braden, Tim Barrons, William Wallace ( a Pakistani Pastor who has been blessed by Dr. Morey), and a host of many others gave testimony to the character of a man who is described as a shepherd who is a servant to all and an example of godliness!
After being at Calvary Chapel of South Bay for just about 6 years, I learned a great deal about servanthood, evangelism, and missions work. The Lord used Calvary Chapel of South Bay in a great way in my life. One afternoon while driving, I tuned my radio to a man who was teaching of the doctrines of grace. Being an ardent Calvinist hater, I was captivated by the teaching! Soon after, I realized I had to find this pastor. I had been struggling in my Christian life because I could not live the Christian life I was being taught. All this to say that that afternoon marked the beginning of one of the greatest blessings God would give my wife and I through Dr. Robert Morey and his ministry.
I can say as I look back that our experience at Faith Community OC has been monumental in terms of our growth in the grace and knowledge of Jesus Christ, our Lord. My wife and I have learned so much and have seen the work of grace not only in our lives but in the lives of our brothers and sisters as well. We have seen how the Lord imparts His gifts to individual members within the church to bless one another. We have learned that God reveals His glory to the world through the local church.

No one can deny that Morey has had a positive impact in the life and minds of many men and woman of God. That simply has never been the issue with Dr. Bob. The issues have been the dozens of eyewitness testimonies to his sinful and criminal activities against Christians throughout the years for his own gain. It does not honor God's law to silence the voices of those crying out for justice by only listening to those that have not been wounded. One case in point is that Morey has spoken out against Hank Hanegraaff in the past for his abusive behaviour against Christians. But if Hank were to retire from ministry he could present thousands of testimonials attesting to the impact his ministry and work have had on the lives of Christians speaking of his integrity that would dwarf Morey's. Does this some how prove that Hanegraaff is not guilty of any wrong doing and that all those (including Morey) are guilty of slander and gossip against him? So we have a dilemma, either Morey is guilty of slander and gossip against Hanegraaf, or Dr. Bob can be guilty of abusive behaviour against the saints while maintaining a base of Christians that have not been hurt by him.

We have also learned the heartache that comes when one is determined to stand for the truth. There have been the good times and of course there have been the bad times. The times when we must examine ourselves according to Scripture and then the very difficult biblical task of exhorting, admonishing, rebuking, and even handing over unruly church members over to Satan through excommunication. All these things we have experienced by God’s grace to His glory.

Christians who were put on kangaroo courts with Morey as the judge and jury telling the congregation to break fellowship with them. People who were slandered from the pulpit not given the opportunity to plead their case and handed over to Satan in direct violation of Pro. 18:17. And yes, it is to God's glory providentially that all of this comes to light.

Dr. Robert Morey and his family have been spiritual parents to my wife and I. Scripture says that whoever desires to be great in the kingdom of God, must be the servant of all! This is exactly what I have witnessed with Dr. Morey as our shepherd over the last 6 years. He is a man with the heart of a lion for defending the faith, and at the same time a man who is compassionate, caring, and one who exemplifies what it means to be a servant.

Was Dr. Robert Morey "compassionate, caring, and one who exemplifies what it means to be a servant" when he slandered Clark Gallagher? What about Tom Maxham, James Mulroney, Larry Wessels, George Bonneau, Mike Stephens, Jim Newheiser, and on and on.

Dr. Morey has taught us what it is to love others in the midst of adversities and in the midst of attacks by those who would claim to be followers of Christ. In these situations I have witnessed those individuals who Dr. Morey has extended his home, wallet, hospitality, visitation in the hospital, the very shirt on his back, viciously curse him, slander, and malign him, all without cause.

Well if we only listen to Morey's side of the story than one might think that it was without cause. But the truth is that we have dozens of witnesses and documented evidence of Morey's criminal behaviour against other Christians. So to say that it is "without cause" is irresponsible at best and dishonest at worst. I will not judge the intentions of the blogger so I will assume his sincerity in making this comment. But this does fit in with what I stated about the seven distinguishing characteristics of a moreyite. I will re post them here and remind everyone that these characteristics vary from moreyite to moreyite.

1. They accept the claims and assertions of Bob Morey on his personal and academic background at face value.
2. They unquestioningly accept Bob Morey's claims on theology, philosophy, and history as fact.
3. They emulate and repeat Bob Morey's talking points verbatim in discussions of faith and morals.
4. They (like Bob Morey) condescendingly belittle other Christians that disagree with them and people of other faiths accusing them of changing the subject.
5. They turn away any evidence of wrong doing on the part of Bob Morey always giving him the benefit of the doubt.
6. They disassociate from former church members that find Bob Morey's behaviour to be unethical.
7. They charge any critic of Bob Morey with "slander and gossip" (a Morey mantra) and call former FCC members "disgruntled" and "apostates".

You see them out there. I stand amazed and baffled how these individuals apostatize in such a way. Christ calls us to bless those who curse us, Christ calls us to love our enemies, so to this day I ask myself the question, how is it that these individuals after being greatly blessed and taught by this man, get angry and bitter to the point of becoming unbiblical? There is no excuse!

Then "how is it that" Paul rebuked Peter and Barnabas in Antioch? (Gal. 2:11-14) Paul stated that Peter and Barnabas "stood condemned" for being "carried away by their hypocrisy" They were not guilty of teaching heresy, they were guilty of hypocrisy not being "straightforward about the truth of the gospel". Was Paul being "unbiblical?" Was Paul "angry and bitter to the point of becoming unbiblical" when he wrote "Alexander the copper smith did me much harm; the Lord will repay him according to his deeds." (2Tim 4:14)? Was Paul "angry and bitter to the point of becoming unbiblical" when he condemned the man guilty of having an affair with father's wife? (1Cor. 5:1-5) Was Robert Morey "angry and bitter to the point of becoming unbiblical" when he stated that he had "zero respect for Hank Hanegraaff"? Would Morey apostatize in such a way?" I'm sure that the scribes and Pharisees would "stand amazed and baffled" when Jesus told them
"Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you tithe mint and dill and cummin, and have neglected the weightier provisions of the law: justice and mercy and faithfulness; but these are the things you should have done without neglecting the others.
"You blind guides, who strain out a gnat and swallow a camel!
"Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you clean the outside of the cup and of the dish, but inside they are full of robbery and self-indulgence.
"You blind Pharisee, first clean the inside of the cup and of the dish, so that the outside of it may become clean also.
"Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you are like whitewashed tombs which on the outside appear beautiful, but inside they are full of dead men's bones and all uncleanness.
"So you, too, outwardly appear righteous to men, but inwardly you are full of hypocrisy and lawlessness. (Matthew 23:23-28)

I believe these words will ring true for Morey to some extent until God grants him repentance. (2Tim. 2:25) Was Jesus "angry and bitter to the point of becoming unbiblical"? I don't think that the Lord Jesus would "apostatize in such a way" and neither does the blogger. But why is it okay for Dr. Bob to say whatever he wants about other Christians? This question remains unanswered by our moreyite brothers. They know that there is a rightful place in the church for accusations to be made against Christians and elders (but evidently Morey is the exception). (1Tim. 5:9) They just won't accept any accusations against their spiritual leader with an open mind and not only refuse to hold him accountable, but will continue to accuse the witnesses of sin without answering the evidence.

We pray for these individuals that God grants them the ability to see that they are doing the work of the devil, and to cause them to focus on the glory of Christ, since God is sovereign. Speaking to a few brothers today, they said that were it not for the haters of the ministry, they would not have known about today’s get together, they came as a result of their announcements are were greatly blessed! Praise God. It simply shows us how God uses all things for the Good!

We pray that God will open the eyes and ears of the moreyites to see the truth about Dr. Robert A. Morey. It was providential that Morey chose Acts 20:27 to make his final sermon because the following verses warn the Ephesian elders against people like Dr. Bob.
"Be on guard for yourselves and for all the flock, among which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers, to shepherd the church of God which He purchased with His own blood.
"I know that after my departure savage wolves will come in among you, not sparing the flock;
and from among your own selves men will arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away the disciples after them. (Acts 20:28-30)
Paul's warning is not only against heretics but against men who would use the pulpit for their own personal gain.
"Some, to be sure, are preaching Christ even from envy and strife, but some also from good will;
the latter do it out of love, knowing that I am appointed for the defense of the gospel;
the former proclaim Christ out of selfish ambition rather than from pure motives, thinking to cause me distress in my imprisonment.
What then? Only that in every way, whether in pretense or in truth, Christ is proclaimed; and in this I rejoice. Yes, and I will rejoice," (Phi. 1:15-18).

As for us, we thank the Lord Jesus for the 6+ years the Lord has given us at FCCOC. We love the brothers and sisters, the great relationships, the koinonia fellowship, the growth in our body, the exercising of our faith together and experiencing the glory of God while we worshipped together every Sunday! We have been together for this time, and now it is time for us to spread the fragrance! We have indeed this treasure in earthen vessels! We have been equipped and God is moving once again! Indeed He sits on His throne and His sovereignty rules over all! Praise God from whom all blessing flow!
Dr. Morey, you will probably never know how much you have impacted our lives! We bless God for you, Annie, John, and Ruthanne! You have indeed been a great example to us! We love you with the affections of Christ! You have been a Spiritual Daddy to my wife and I, and I’m sure to us all. From the deepest reaches of our soul we thank God for you, and thank you! We’ll always remember your exhortations, your smile, your laughter, the trips, the teachings, your crazy jokes, and not to mention Annies laughter, and good ole Scotty! May God richly bless you my charging Rhino. Keep on keeping on for Jesus! Kick old slew foot in the butt a thousand more times! Fulfill your ministry! We pray for a fruitful time in NY! You are in our prayers dad! It has been a blessing!
Brothers and sisters, feel free to sound off! The Rhino is on the move, surely this is not the last time we hear from him! Get ready……..Acts20:32-35

We wish all the family of FCCOC well and pray for them to have better discernment in a leader. And that Robert Morey will no longer continue with his abusive and sinful behaviour.
God bless.

17601 Fitch Avenue, Irvine, CA TODAY!

2009-03-02T21:45:00.000-08:00

More pictures to follow including a response to biblicalthought.com's Mario Herrera and his ridiculous "love" (Eros) letter to his lying, thieving, gossip spreading "Daddy". Who's your Daddy?

Bye Bye, Bob Morey!

2009-02-17T12:13:00.000-08:00

This entry was written by Moriel Ministries

Discredited former radio personality Robert Morey, who was kicked out of the ministry by his Reformed denomination, caught in academic fraud with a bogus doctorate which the issuing seminary said was invalid, and after having his radio program canceled, lost propriety of his church building and has announced his early retirement from his “Faith Defenders” church in California. He is reported to be leaving the state amidst a series of complaints against him to police and law enforcement agencies calling for investigation into his dealings. Morey has been accosted for everything from alleged slander to widespread financial impropriety, often by former church members and colleagues, other preachers, and by members of the Christian business community with whom he had been financially associated. He was also dropped from the Christian Conference circuit where he had in times past once been an invited speaker.

By some reports Morey is attributing his retirement to reasons of health due to the problematic aftermath of his anti-obesity surgery. Other sources are suggesting it is to help avoid possible prosecution and litigation. We offer no explanation, but we simply thank God that he is finally gone from the radar screen. May it be final. This is indeed a victory for the Body of Christ.

Below is an email sent to church members.

Dear Church Family,

The last service of Faith Community Church will be held at 1:00PM on March 1st where Dr. Morey will officially retire from pastoring. Pastors, members and friends of the church who have been blessed by Dr. Bob’s radio program, books, tapes, CD’s, DVD’s, sermons and counseling are welcome to this celebration service. Join us in the Agape Feast to follow afterward at 3:00PM. We will have a book table of Dr. Bob’s resources available for purchase at 50% discount and can be autographed. A special “retirement love offering” will be taken. “The laborer is worthy of his wages” 1 Timothy 5:18b
Heather Terry webmaster of Faith Community Church

Criminal Fraud & Slander Routinely Practiced by "dr" Robert Morey of "Faith Defenders"

2009-01-22T09:11:00.000-08:00

by Larry Wessels (Just Another Morey Victim)

Romans 13:1-7

"Everyone must submit himself to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God. Consequently, he who rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves. For rulers hold no terror for those who do right, but for those who do wrong. Do you want to be free from fear of the one in authority? Then do what is right and he will commend you. For he is God's servant to do you good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword for nothing. He is God's servant, an agent of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer. Therefore, it is necessary to submit to the authorities, not only because of possible punishment but also because of conscience. This is also why you pay taxes, for the authorities are God's servants, who give their full time to governing. Give everyone what you owe him: If you owe taxes, pay taxes; if revenue, then revenue; if respect, then respect; if honor, then honor."
Here it is 2009 and I still find myself writing warning articles to God's people about religious CON MAN "dr" Robert Morey aka "Truth Seeker Bob." I started doing articles on Morey back in 1995 when I sent out a nationwide newsletter at my own expense delivered to thousands of churches, religious organizations, & individuals entitled, "A Defense Against Criminal Slander & Fraud" along with a multitude of other documented materials posted there dealing with Morey). Not only did I send out that newsletter free of charge but also hundreds of VHS tapes & audio cassettes (now available at yahoo, google, youtube, Dr. Robert A. Morey Eposed!, and the pdf documentation here) that exposed to the public what Morey really was. Wow, how time has flown & here I am still writing about Morey to try to protect the innocent from this money grubbing charlatan in religious clothing. Morey can definitely talk the Christian talk BUT he definitely does NOT walk the Christian walk (Titus 1: 10-16). This is clearly documented in many Internet outreaches (see http://moreylinks.blogspot.com/ for starters). Just as false prophets such as Jehovah's Witnesses & Mormons are still on the loose & Christian apologists have been writing against them for years so to is Morey running loose & Christians must warn the flock of this type of deceitful danger caused by people like Morey (Acts 20:28-31).

Before I go on with this article, I can't help but think of how just the other day I was asked by someone to explain to another that the theory of evolution was untrue. I took the time to explain that Darwin's atheistic evolution theory was simply another bogus religion that was being passed off as "scientific fact" to an unsuspecting public. Wow, you should have seen the look on the face of the one I was telling this to; she did not believe me for a moment! In the same way, when I talk of the abuse, fraud, & criminal activity of "dr" Robert Morey I get the same response of overwhelming disbelief from committed "Moreyite" followers. Ostrich faith in Morey, like evolution, is a broken reed to lean on (Isaiah 36:6). Unfortunately, many make an idol out of Morey despite all evidence to the contrary.

This article deals with criminal activities & the reporting to law enforcement authorities by concerned individuals of such activities. The question arises, "Should Christians 'look the other way' or ignore known criminal activities when those activities are being perpetrated by a so-called "Christian" or worse yet, a "Christian leader?" Is it the duty of Christians to remain silent when known crimes are taking place (such as rape & murder to white collar crimes such as mail or securities fraud)? How would Robert Morey ("Truth Seeker Bob") answer this question? Let's find out! The following is from "The Truth Seeker with Bob Morey" dated January/February 1995, page 4, from Morey's article entitled, "Christians and the Courts:"

"It really does not matter if the criminal in question is a professing Christian. If anyone (regardless of race or creed) steals, rapes, murders, embezzles funds, etc., he is to be turned over to the state for justice. After all, isn't this why God set up the state? Yes! (See Romans 13:1-6.) If a professing Christian breaks the law and commits a criminal act, he is to be turned over to the state for prosecution. The Christian Church was never given a biblical mandate or the biblical authority to handle cases involving criminal law. It has no divine or legal authority to imprison criminals, levee fines, confiscate money and property, or put people to death. These are the functions of the state and not the church."

As many Christian investigators into this case already know, I also wrote another nationally distributed newsletter back in the 1990s entitled, "Bob Morey Reported to Federal & State Authorities for Mail Fraud & Extortion." Not only did I document Morey's criminal actions of unabated mail fraud (he mailed out several national "ministry" newsletters by the thousands via a non-profit bulk mail permit across state lines) by falsely accusing my brother & myself of "embezzling" thousands of dollars from his "ministry." I showed how Morey used this false story to get people to give him financial support and sympathy (his own newsletters showed letters from supporters saying they were sending Morey money because of our supposed "embezzlement"). In my newsletter I documented how I reported Morey to seven different law enforcement agencies which were: Office of U.S. Attorney for the Western District of Texas, Correspondence Branch-Federal Trade Commission, Federal Bureau of Investigation, U.S. Postal Inspection Service, Commonwealth of Pennsylvania-Department of State, Financial Fraud Institute, & the Pennsylvania Attorney General Office. Some of their replies are reproduced in that newsletter. Although I then sat back & waited for something to happen nothing ever did. None of these agencies bothered to investigate the case (the U.S. Postal Inspection Service simply mailed back my original package of VHS & audio cassettes + 1000 pages of documentation seven years later unreviewed; I still have the returned package as evidence of lack of action).

In fact, instead of Morey being investigated, I faced a criminal investigation by the Internal Revenue Service because Morey filed a complaint against me! Naturally my brother & myself were completely cleared by the IRS criminal investigators (one IRS investigator even volunteered to be put on audio tape in our defense; listen to it here) & they indicated to me that Morey was the one who should be investigated! I immediately reported Morey to the IRS at that time but the IRS agents clearly told me that they were not allowed to report to anyone how the investigation would turn out. All I know is within 6 weeks of that IRS criminal investigation put into action against Morey, Morey suddenly decided to leave Pennsylvania & move to California!

Since all the law enforcement agencies I had written to had done nothing I simply wrote a few more national "Truth Seeker Bob" Updates to the general public & then just let the issue sit. From there I turned my main focus to Christian ministry while I worked my secular job. Years passed & Morey settled into California having gotten away with his fraud & slander because law enforcement agencies never investigated the case (with the exception being the IRS criminal investigators as far as I know). Unfortunately, since a leopard can't change his spots (Jeremiah 13:23), Morey started his "fraud & slander" scam on Christians in California & hence his current difficulties with them & me (in fact, as Christian after Christian was getting "burned" by Morey in California they kept contacting me to get involved again). So here I am in 2009 with Internet technology (I wish I had this back in the 1990s) reaching untold thousands with the trumpet warning about Morey.

With all this said, I'd like to update our readers of my LATEST reporting of Morey to federal & state law enforcement agencies (who knows if they will bother to do anything about this case this time either). Back in the 1990s I wrote to 7 agencies & did a verbal request to IRS criminal investigators. Throughout late 2008 I reported Morey to the following law enforcement agencies: Federal Bureau of Investigation (Los Angeles), Office of the District Attorney-County of Orange, Criminal Investigations Service Center-U.S. Postal Inspection Service, Internal Revenue Service (Fresno, CA), Orange Police Department, Irvine Police Department, Anaheim Police Department, & Office of the Inspector General-U.S. Department of Justice. I also wrote to the Federal Bureau of Investigation (Philadelphia) to report Morey's henchmen Joseph T. Slavitskas & Humphrey Perez for mail fraud and extortion (Webster's Dictionary defines "extortion" as "the act or practice of wresting money, etc. from a person by force, threats, misuse of authority, or by any undo exercise of power...").

My complaints range from his well established national mail fraud crimes and verbal extortion schemes to the overwhelming number of California witnesses who are complaining of Morey's defrauding them of their finances and of Morey's defrauding of church finances. In California Morey has been particularly vicious (which is his habit) in his criminal slander against any and all Christian people (especially members of his "church") who either ask the wrong questions or he perceives as a threat to his little scam operation he has set up there. Once again I have done all I can do. If law enforcement agencies will not take the time to investigate this case then it will simply be a repeat of what happened in the 1990s. Law enforcement inactivity and the fact that other Christians who have been affected by Morey are not reporting him to authorities is what keeps Morey in business and laughing all the way to the bank with other people's money.

I'd like to mention another item of interest. As many of you alreadyknow, Morey was kicked out of the Fellowship of Independent ReformedEvangelicals (F.I.R.E.), which is an association of like-minded churches, forthe following reason according to their posted statement:

"Notice to FIRE members: Robert Morey (Orange, CA) has resigned as an individual member of FIRE at the unanimous request of the Board. A FIRE member-church requested the Board's assistance in resolving issues with Dr. Morey that had spread outside his congregation and affected other churches, Christian organizations and individuals. The Board received substantial evidence of a pattern of behavior in which Dr. Morey abused his pastoral authority and grossly mistreated people under his care. After Dr. Morey refused a request to meet with members of the Board in a conference call concerning these matters, the Board unanimously requested his resignation."

This rather ugly situation proves that:

1. Morey knows that the FIRE board has the "goods" on him.

2. Morey knows that he cannot defend himself from these charges and therefore refuses to meet with them.

3. Morey knows it's better to get out and go somewhere else where people do not know what kind of scoundrel he really is.

4. Morey has DISQUALIFIED himself as a legitimate ELDER of any Christian church! (1 Timothy 3:1-7).

F.I.R.E. has since released an 81 page report on Morey documented by numerous Christian witnesses (I was included in their report & was provided a copy as of November 24, 2008). Morey always tries to claim there are only "single witness" accusations against him trying to hide the fact that there is really a HOST of witnesses (and not just any witnesses but CHRISTIAN witnesses) against him. Morey has successfully used this "single witness" baloney on his brainwashed "Moreyite" followers who simply have not taken the time to check into the facts of the case for themselves. Despite this we have here an 81 page report filled with Christian witness after Christian witness testifying against Morey such things as Morey is a liar, a gossip, a slanderer, engager in illegal and criminal activities, immoral, filthy speech talker, lover of money, a non-Christian and on and on the list goes (Proverbs 6: 16-19 really comes to mind about Morey when this 81 page summary is read).

Unfortunately, F.I.R.E. has not given permission for this 81 page report on Morey to be distributed to the public but it has made it available to their membership. I contacted F.I.R.E. to use some of the damning information about Morey in the report for this blog article but their response was:

"Dear Larry, I submitted your request to our Executive Committee, who have declined to grant permission to post a quote from our Summary. While we are sympathetic to your concerns, we believe posting it goes beyond the original intended use of our document and the intent of those who gave us permission to include their testimonies in our Summary. We suggest you contact the original source directly and seek permission from the author. Thank you for checking with us. We do appreciate it. Blessings from the snowy Northwest. - Bruce Ray, FIRE secretary."

I decided to take the suggestion of the FIRE committee & I successfully contacted one witness in particular that had revealed very damaging criminal information about how Morey illegally acquired his church building at 17601 Fitch Avenue in Irvine, California 92614. Morey has recently sold that Fitch building to a hotel chain (Hilton I'm told) for millions of dollars (some say it was $14 million and who do you think got the millions of dollars and we can only imagine what manner of contractual finagling was done behind the scenes?). Ron Hodgman has been posting his own findings on the history and fate of the Faith Defenders building on three blogs, True Faith Defender, True Faith Defender's Blog, and Self-Feeder Christian Blog.

This particular witness sent me two e-mails with the first stating in part,

"While I believe that it was appropriate to remove Morey from FIRE, I do not think it is appropriate to post my letter on any website. Vengeance is mine, saith the Lord. I think Morey has already lost any and all credibility ... So what is the point of pressing Morey at this point? God will do a far better job than we could possibly ever do."

I then told him I would respect his wishes & not post his letter or mention his name. I then asked him about reporting Morey to law enforcement agencies to which his second e-mail stated,

"The principal authorities in charge of securities regulation are the US Securities & Exchange Commission, and the California Department of Corporations. I am not sure what interest the US Department of Justice would have in the Fitch Avenue property, or why you are pursuing the matter. Please explain."

I then replied with various Internet links & thanked him for his help.

Before continuing I would like to say in response to this witness' quote of Romans 12:19, "Vengeance is mine: I will repay, saith the Lord." The Apostle Paul tells you exactly how the Lord will repay on this "vengeance" just a few verses down where Romans 13:1-7 begins. One way God exercises "vengeance" is through the use of civil authorities which He has ordained to punish wrong doers. When Romans was first written chapter divisions were not in place as they are now therefore as Paul speaks of the vengeance of the Lord he flows right into to it by discussing God ordained civil "rulers" who "beareth not the sword in vain" against wrong doers. I am always amazed that Christians, when they see criminal activity, do not take action by reporting it to ordained "rulers" so that "vengeance" may occur. These Christians suppose that they should just "do nothing" and somehow "vengeance" will occur but their problem is they are not reading their Bibles accurately.

Now, back to our story- Armed with this new law enforcement contact information I immediately sent in an online complaint concerning securities violations to the US Securities & Exchange Commission. The California Department of Corporations does not take online complaints but rather you have to mail them in to: Department of Corporations, Consumer Services Office, 1515 K Street, Suite 200, Sacramento, CA 95814. Therefore I mailed them my complaint information about Morey's illegal acquisition involving securities fraud of the Fitch building in Irvine. As with all my criminal complaints to authorities I received a return receipt.

Since "Truth Seeker Bob" (dr) Morey is exactly what a multitude of Christian witnesses have been saying about him, namely an immoral, lying crook masquerading as a high and mighty Christian "scholar" who has "read every book in the Library of Congress" I would not be surprised if old "TS Bob" were to suddenly "take a hike." Just as when criminal investigators from the IRS told me years ago that they felt Morey needed to be investigated and within weeks he suddenly left Pennsylvania and took off for California, I would not be surprised if Morey suddenly were to "skip town" and "get out of Dodge." It's getting mighty "hot in the kitchen" there in California, particularly with the Orange County District Attorney watching him along with all these other organizations. A con man always knows when he has worn out his welcome and it's time to leave. Just as with all con men, he needs to go where no one really knows him well so he can start his scam game all over again. But as the old saying goes, "You can run but you can't hide."

The following is a recent letter I received from the Justice Department regarding Morey:

Interestingly enough, after I had completed this blog article and had sent it off to be posted I received the following e-mail from Dean Haakenson, the California Corporations Commissioner:

In reply refer to file no. CAS-41032, January 21, 2009, Re: Faith Defenders, et al.

Dear Mr. Wessels:

This e-mail is to acknowledge receipt of your written complaint regarding Faith Defenders. Your complaint was received in our office on January 12, 2009 and has been assigned the number listed above. It has been submitted to the appropriate staff for review and evaluation. We will contact you for additional information if we determine that we need it to complete that process. Thank you for bringing this matter to our attention. Sincerely,

California Corporations Commissioner,

Dean Haakenson.

This e-mail gave me hope that perhaps, unlike the 1990s, law enforcement agencies would follow-up and investigate Morey's activities for the protection of the public good.

The Apostle Paul rightly points out the key to all of Morey's problems in 1 Timothy 6: 8-10:

"And if we have food and covering, with these we shall be content. But those who want to get rich fall into temptation and a snare and many foolish and harmful desires which plunge men into ruin and destruction. For the love of money is the root of all sorts of evil, and some by longing for it have wandered away from the faith, and pierced themselves with many a pang."

That's it for now. Stay close to the Lord during these evil days.

Larry Wessels
P.O. Box 144441
Austin, TX 78714
1 Peter 3:15

To Slander Or Not To Slander, That Is The Question! (The Hypocrisy Of Robert Albert Morey)

2009-01-13T12:42:00.000-08:00

Although it is a little late, I would like to wish our readers a happy new year as we have said good bye to 2008. I believe that Bob Morey should be happy to say good bye to 2008, it was a horrific year for his reputation, ministry and church. Here are the highlights.
1. Another church split.
2. The resignation of two of the three elders he had ordained two months before.
3. Robert Morey was asked to resign from FIRE.
4. The loss of the building in Irvine.
5. Mass exposure of his sinful conduct on the internet.

Shortly before the year ended on Dec 15, 2008 one of the BT bloggers published an excerpt from a Bible commentary on receiving accusations. I would like to re post it here because the commentary gets it right on this issue. But given the backdrop of the Morey controversies it is clear that he posted it (at least in part) as a rebuke of our work.

B. H. Carroll on Receiving Accusations Against an Elder
Stephen Macasil
“Receive not an accusation against an elder, except at the mouth of two or three witnesses.”If that rule were followed strictly, many needless scandals and troubles in churches would be avoided. It is such an easy thing to call a man off and whisper, “Don’t say anything about this, but I want to tell you something about our pastor.” We should stop the whisperer at once: “Are you about to tell me something against the pastor? If so, do you know it to be true, or are you proposing to circulate a hearsay? If you know it to be true, can you furnish the corroborative testimony of other witnesses? And will you and the other witnesses go with me now and tell what you know to the pastor himself, face to face, giving him an opportunity to meet the accusation?” The whisperer will be apt to reply: “Oh, no! I don’t know anything myself. I have heard so and so.” Thus we not only silence the whisperer, but we save ourselves from becoming a partaker of his sin. The necessity for this rule, in all cases, is more emphasized in the case of a preacher, whose reputation is a large part of his capital.I had a remarkable experience on this line. I went to a certain church to help in a meeting, and noticed one man who kept praising my preaching ad nauseam, while others looked sad when they heard him. After a while he came to me and wanted to put me up against some members of the church, and especially against the pastor. I said, “Look here; you don’t know whom you are talking to. I came here to help, not to harm this pastor. I won’t hold a meeting to hurt a pastor. If you have any accusations or complaints to make, and if you can bring two or three witnesses, let us go before the pastor himself and then if necessary before the church and fairly investigate this matter before we go on with the meeting.” That sawed him off and he never praised my preaching any more.It is shameful the way good, God-fearing men are slandered by irresponsible reports against them. Bring the accuser to task and make him come out in the open and give his corroborative evidence, and allow the accused a chance to answer.Timothy is there in Ephesus, a great city with many thousands of church members, and many preachers. He is there in an apostle’s stead, and from all over the country some people, if encouraged, will be bringing him private word about some of the preachers. Paul says, “Don’t receive an accusation against an elder except at the mouth of two or three witnesses.”The Mosaic law went further: If a charge was made and not sustained, the perjurer received the punishment that the accused would have received if found guilty. Such a restriction puts a brake on the slanderer’s tongue. When we thus hold a man responsible for what he says he is not so ready to talk about people.- B. H. Carroll, An Interpretation of the English Bible, Vol. 16, The Pastoral Epistles, The Epistles of Peter

This has been the consistent teaching of Robert Morey for years based on the Bible. But has he practiced what he has preached on this very issue. Let us take a look at some of the things that Dr. Bob has published in the past on slander. These picture scans are from REF mass mailings from the 1990s, there are handwritten marks to single out points made by Morey.

Morey has chosen to take "the high road by not responding to the attacks made against him.." While "Others have taken the low road in this regard by wasting much time and money in the effort to defend themselves."

So far so good for Morey's "Nehemiah" attitude in keeping with his official position, but let us read on.

Here we have letters from two witnesses testifying that Morey was dare I say it "slandering" the Wessels brothers, what happened to Nehemiah?

Morey is now directly attacking the Wessels brothers in contradiction of the article on Nehemiah and without providing evidence against the Wessels brothers. Is Dr. Bob following Mat. 18 in these mailings? He is urging Christians to send money to help the ministry because of this story.

Christians are now sending money in support of REF in sympathy of the scandal with the Wessels brothers. Morey writes an article entitled "Christians and the Courts" where he mentions "embezzlement".

Now Anne Morey publishes a well written article on "The Sins Of Slander and Gossip" (the Morey mantra).

Morey now brings two witnesses against the Wessels brothers, Joseph T. Slavitskas and Humphrey Perez (who claims to be the arbitrator when the agreed on arbitrator was "Christ Memorial Baptist Church") however their testimony has already been refuted. But what happened to "the high road by not responding to the attacks made against him.."? Is Morey now taking "the low road in this regard and..wasted much time and money in the effort to defend.." himself?

Morey rebukes the sin of "gossip and slander" while engaging in it himself in this mailing. He cites Deut. 19:15, 1Tim. 5:19 saying that he has satisfied the requirements of the Biblical mandate. But the hypocrisy is glaring in hindsight given all the information we have provided compared to his. Yet ours is slander and his is not.

Morey is now asking for EMNR to get involved in the situation involving the Wessels brothers. This I find ironic in light of the scandal involving Morey's resignation from FIRE. Morey stated that FIRE was wrong to have gotten involved in the situation regarding Tom Maxham. I ask this question to any moreyite, why is it okay for Morey to get EMNR involved in the 1995 but wrong when Tom Maxham gets FIRE involved in 2008? This is clearly a double standard and hypocritical on the part of Robert Morey.

Bob L. Ross of Pilgrim's Publications writes a letter to EMNR lending his support to the Wessels brothers integrity. Ross then writes a note mocking Morey stating that the Wessels had stolen razor blades from REF. The following four picture scans contain Morey's letter to EMNR slandering the Wessels brothers.

EMNR did not bother to get the other side of the story, doesn't Prov. 18:17 come to mind here?

The following is a complete and larger view of the REF mailing entitled "R.E.F. VINDICATED" where he continues to slander the Wessels brothers. I remind the reader that the Wessels have already provided a refutation of Morey's claims on video and pdf.

Here Morey says "the 'single witness' slanders sent out by Larry Wessels violated 1Tim. 5:19 as well as Deut. 19:15. Not one slanderous accusation is backed up by two or three eyewitnesses." This however is simply false, the Wessels have Hank Kitchen, Jim Toungate, Bob L. Ross, Christ Memorial Baptist Church (the official arbitrator) to name a few which satisfies the requirements of those two Bible passages.

A larger view of the letters by Morey's two witnesses Slavitskas and Perez (the so-called arbitrator).

The following is a larger view of Morey's REF mailing entitled URGENT WARNING! EMERGENCY ALERT! EXTREMELY CONFIDENTIAL!

The following two picture scans are a letter from Morey to the IRS accusing George Bonneau of Crown Publications of criminal theft. Needless to say mr. Bonneau won all the court cases against Dr. Robert A. Morey. You can hear his testimony on the "Crown Publications Scandal" here, and the documentation to prove this is here.

The following two picture scans are Morey's letter to the IRS accusing the Wessels brothers of embezzlement. Of course the Wessels brothers were cleared by the IRS of any wrong doing. The interview with Hank Kitchen, Larry Wessels, and the IRS agent L. Martin investigating the case is here.

One of the questions that have been asked of us that have chosen to publish this information on Morey is "don't they have anything better to do?" Well now I ask the same question about Morey, didn't he have anything better to do when he sent all these mailings against the Wessels brothers? Will the moreyites be consistent and rebuke their pastor for wasting all this time slandering other christians? But I think the reader can see that Dr. Robert Albert Morey is a hypocrite when it comes to "slander and gossip". He can say or publish anything he wants against anyone else and it's okay, but someone says something against him and they're guilty of slander and gossip. It's right for Morey to contact EMNR to aid him against the Wessels brothers, but for Tom Maxham to contact FIRE to aid him with Morey is wrong. We are not told why, but we know it is so because Dr. Bob says it is so.

Are Dr. Robert A. Morey And His Moreyites Cultic?

2008-12-06T22:15:00.000-08:00

The term cult is thrown around a lot in speaking of a movement polarised around some one's interpretation of the Bible. From a theological stand point theologians refer to a cult as a group of people that claim to be Christian claim to believe the Bible and always deny the creedal doctrine of the Trinity. Most by demoting the Lord Jesus to being part of the created order such as the JW's or the Mormons. Others by denying that the Lord Jesus and the Holy Spirit are distinct from the Father affirming that they are manifestations (modalism) such as the modern day "Oneness" Pentecostals. Aside from the theological usage of the term cult, there is also a social aspect of the term that cannot be ignored. Morey's followers are zealous to preach and teach God's word and are loyal not only to Morey but to each other. They also agree with most or all that Morey says repeating his statements verbatim, even when his views are in question in reformed circles. This loyalty causes them to turn a deaf ear to any evidence of wrong doing that could be given to them. And if one of them concludes that Morey is guilty of sin, they are then rebuked and told to repent. If they do not repent of "their sin" they are then exiled from fellowship with the group they once considered a family. Some would characterise this type of influence as mind control on the part of Robert Morey.
One instance of this can be seen in the fact that Morey can get away with accusing anyone of sin from the pulpit without providing any evidence. Clark Gallagher is a good example of this, but when they decide to defend themselves they are accused of "gossip and slander". This then becomes the catch cry of all his current followers when they speak of the same individuals. Morey will tell the church members that they are not to fellowship with these individuals unless they repent of their sin. Morey limits his followers to the selective information that he gives them and the moreyites base their conclusions on that. Any criticisms of their spiritual leader are perceived as the persecution of a great man of God. This convinces them even more that they are doing God's will because Jesus predicted that His followers would be persecuted because of His name (Mat. 24:9). I like to call this the martyr card.
At Biblical Thought there is a series of articles entitled "Why Be a Member of a Church?" and the articles are good. In the comments section of the third article we find a comment by one of the bloggers.

Dec 5th, 2008

It is fascinating to see how when this blogger refers to us as those who "Don't submit to authority,...mudslingers, slanderers, gossipers, having a 'teardown' ministry thinking they are doing God's work." They demand that we provide evidence for any claims that we make about Morey which we have. But they can charge us with all these sins without providing any evidence that we are guilty of "gossip and slander". Why isn't this statement considered mudslinging or slander, etc..? May God's grace be poured upon FCCOC.

Will The Real Moreyites Please Stand Up!

2008-12-02T17:31:00.000-08:00

Ever since Charles Taze Russell founded the "Watchtower Bible and Tract Society" (Jehovah's Witnesses) the members have often been labeled "russellites". This has never been understood to mean that his followers were devoted to Russell the man but to the movement he founded. Just like being labeled a "calvinist" or "augustinian", gadfly j and I accept both labels but this doesn't mean that we are devoted to Augustine or Calvin as men. With this said it is strange the way the term "moreyite" is being interpreted by Morey's followers.. It manifests their state of mind as they look back at all the documented scandals and how in denial they've become. And it also vindicates the definition and characteristics I gave of a moreyite in my previous blog post. In the comments section of this article at BT you find this statement by an FCC member and how she views the current status of FCC.

Becky

Ditto Mario. We are starting to become like a real church with body life. The move helped i think, with everyone not being so spread out, and the preaching schedule. With Dr. Bob not at the pulpit as often, the moreyites have probably mostly been weeded out, only leaving those who actually care about church and learning God’s word, no matter who is the vessel.
Nov 19th, 2008

One would think that those who remain ARE the moreyites, and those who left WERE (past tense) the moreyites. In the comments section of one of Glenn Hendrickson's blog posts the same woman has this exchange with Glenn, Joshua, and myself.

November 5, 2008 2:30 PM
Stupid Sheep said...

People probably read more when you post about Morey because gossip is way more interesting than a college student's life. ;)I jest.-ish. I don't doubt that's a reason. Such is the depravity of man.

November 5, 2008 2:31 PM
Glenn Hendrickson said...

haha, funny,"Gossip" is also the word Morey uses to describe truth (or rather, truth when it makes him look bad and/or exposes his abuses).

November 5, 2008 2:44 PM
Stupid Sheep said...

It would make sense, considering that gossip can be true or false, right? It's just talking about people behind their back. I've been gossipped about in my life, some true, some not, all uncalled for.

November 5, 2008 3:40 PM
lieutenantcolumbo said...
Miss Becky states that the interest in reading our "gossip" on Morey stems from the "depravity of man." Does this mean that Paul's depravity caused him to "gossip" when he wrote "Alexander the copper smith did me much harm; the Lord will repay him according to his deeds." (2Tim 4:14)? Was Paul engaging in sinful behaviour? Can we not do the same with current church leaders? Or is Morey the exception to this concept? Is it not even possible that we are trying to hold Morey accountable for his actions? Perhaps trying to warn people before they in turn get hurt? Let me pick a scandal and ask miss Becky to explain how this merely constitutes "gossip". Can you explain how it is that Morey can claim that the Wessels brothers stold money from REF when we have the 1992 tax form with Morey's signature mailed in an envelope in Morey's writing that states that he owed them nearly 33,000 dollars? Why did both Bob and Anne Morey sign the "AGREEMENT OF THE PARTIES" document stating that they owed the Wessels money when they were supposedly being robbed by the Wessels?

November 8, 2008 9:21 PM
Stupid Sheep said...
ltc, i was saying that of every visitor. If Glenn has a certain number most days, and more on morey days, i don't doubt a large number come for gossip. Either they are subscribed and keep track for keywords or they come because someone else told them Glenn is writing about Morey again.

1) Do you really think that peak is all people "trying to hold Morey accountable? I don't doubt a portion of that number is current-FCC folk like myself. They just keep quiet.

2) Do you really think you can hold someone accountable by reading a blog post by a third party

November 9, 2008 9:07 AM
lieutenantcolumbo said...

Miss Becky said...

"ltc, i was saying that of every visitor. If Glenn has a certain number most days, and more on morey days, i don't doubt a large number come for gossip. Either they are subscribed and keep track for keywords or they come because someone else told them Glenn is writing about Morey again."

I don't doubt this miss Becky, but this is not what I was talking about. With that in mind, Glenn, Joel, gadfly j, and myself have written about issues of real substance. Not merely trivial gossip.

Miss Becky said...

"1) Do you really think that peak is all people "trying to hold Morey accountable? I don't doubt a portion of that number is current-FCC folk like myself. They just keep quiet."

I cannot speak for everyone involved in the current controversy. I can only speak for FIRE, Larry Wessels, and the contributing blogs regarding OUR motives and work.

Miss Becky said...

"2) Do you really think you can hold someone accountable by reading a blog post by a third party?"

Well I don't know what you mean by "accountable?" I speak of accountability in the way that Paul held Alexander the coppersmith accountable by informing the saints. I know of a family that left FCC after listening to all the mp3s on lieutenantcolumbo. Integrity is an essential characteristic to be a biblically qualified leader. Yes mistakes are made because we are human. But the issues with Dr. Bob are several and significant. With this said, you didn't answer my question regarding the REF scandal. Do you think that we are deliberately falsifying documents? Are those not the Morey's signatures on those documents? If the documents I've made available are accurate, then Morey is guilty of theft. He is also guilty of extortion being that he send out national mail outs accusing the Wessels of stealing money and asking for financial help for REF. The case is simple. Either the Wessels are thieves and liars, or Morey is. I don't see a third option. And we have a long list of witnesses that knew Morey personally and worked for him that can attest to the latter. The man has a very long history of having issues with people. I am restricting myself to this one scandal as I ask my questions. Can you explain to us how what we are doing is any different from Paul's action towards Alexander? Can you show me that the documentation we've provided is erroneous or forged? The PDF documentation on the Internet for instance? May the Lord Jesus bless you miss Becky.

November 9, 2008 10:27 PM
Joshua said...
LC:Good luck getting an answer from Becky regarding the ultimatum you've proposed. I've asked her that very question on a number of occasions and she has yet to answer it.

November 13, 2008 11:49 PM
Stupid Sheep said...
To spite Joshua, no, i can't say how it's any different because i'm not familiar with it. Sorry i said anything. You carry on what you're doing and i'll carry on what i'm doing...elsewhere. I shall refrain from commenting on Glenn's blog unless unrelated to all this.I'm not Morey and thus do not have to answer to any of your claims against him.

November 14, 2008 12:06 AM
Joshua said...
Becky,The issue you responded to wasn't an ultimatum, nor the question I was referring to. I was referring to the..ultimatum presented by LC. Are you going to answer this? Again, I don't expect you to as I've asked you this question *many* times and on *every* occasion you've refused to respond. Regarding your last statement: you act as if we've been emailing you privately and attempting to force you to defend Bob. No one claimed you needed to defend Bob nor asked you to. In reality, *you've* willfully and publicly countered virtually every post against Bob. This has caused myself and others to raise legitimate objections.

November 14, 2008 12:53 AM
Stupid Sheep said...
Joshua it's because your like an annoying little critter so obsessed with his acorn. Go show the other squirrels while i eat my cake, okay? No i can't explain your claim that Morey claims the Wessels brothers "stold" money from REF. Ask the brothers, Morey, or the IRS. Doesn't concern me. I have no idea the timeline of the signing, these claims, if the payments stated were given, or the outcome of the case that they signed (it said $5,000 MAY be owed after review). I don't think you are deliberately falsifying documents and i don't know if that's Morey's signature. Whoever is the liar is between the three of them. If they have such a strong case, how come they have to turn to the people? Did they lose and they are sore about it?Many times, ah, you admit you are obsessed with this and can't move on with your life. You weren't even one affected, but getting all riled up by others.I have no idea how you got the idea that i'm acting like you've been emailing me privately and all that. You are asking me about issues about Morey and the Wessels. I'm not a part of it so i can't answer. I have NOT defended every post against Morey. You're like the liberals who think that anyone who doesn't agree with their worldview is closed-minded. Oh excuse me for not being a vicious hater like you.

November 14, 2008 9:43 AM
lieutenantcolumbo said...

Miss Becky said

"No i can't explain your claim that Morey claims the Wessels brothers "stold" money from REF."

I don't know what you mean by "claim" here. The photo copies of the mailouts Morey put out are on the net. There are several former FCC members and colleagues like Bob Ross, Dan Rosema (Morey's former video man) Mike Stephens (former BML producer and staffer for FD), Lenny Gerkin, Javier Villigran, and many many other witnesses that can attest that Morey has told this story. This is a factual matter of historical record.

Miss Becky said

"Ask the brothers, Morey, or the IRS. Doesn't concern me."

As far as Morey goes, I don't expect him to own up to anything other than saying that everyone else is wrong or in sin. As far as the brothers are concerned, I have spoken with Larry Wessels and have the paper documentation. On my website we have the testimony of the IRS agent that investigated the case and cleared the Wessels brothers of any wrong doing.

Miss Becky said

"I have no idea the timeline of the signing, these claims, if the payments stated were given, or the outcome of the case that they signed (it said $5,000 MAY be owed after review)."

All you have to do is ask miss Becky. You can contact Larry Wessels at your convenience at (512) 218-8022, leave him a message. He will be more than happy to call you back and explain everything that happened over the phone. The Agreement Of the Parties document (which you alluded to) was a settlement for the Wessels. And Morey never payed the remaining $5,000. You can see this in the google videos available on the net.

Miss Becky said

"I don't think you are deliberately falsifying documents and i don't know if that's Morey's signature."

I appreciate you giving me the benefit of the doubt on this one. Just as I believe that you are a sincere woman of God. But I'm sure it's not that hard to examine Morey's writing and compare it to the writing on the envelope and the signature on the tax form. But truth has to matter so much to you that you are willing to go anywhere it leads you. Even if it takes you down a path that is uncomfortable. The possibility that your pastor is guilty of sins that disqualify him from ministry.

Miss Becky said

"If they have such a strong case, how come they have to turn to the people? Did they lose and they are sore about it?

This is a very good and frequently asked question. The answer is that this was a bitter experience for the Wessels and all involved. The Wessels were unpaid volunteers for REF, and it would have cost more money in legal fees to prosecute Morey than the money that was actually loaned to REF. So they sent large packages of documentation to several law enforcement agencies that did nothing. Years later one of the packages was returned unopened. The Wessels wanted to move on from this but needed to defend their reputation that had been damaged by Morey. The internet has been a significant factor now. Larry didn't have this medium at the time, but now he does. And Larry has recently contacted officials about Morey. I blogged about this on saint augustinian blog.

Miss Becky said

"Whoever is the liar is between the three of them."

It grieves me to read this comment miss Becky. What this means to me is if Morey is guilty, then it's just between them. And it seems that it doesn't matter to you if he is guilty of hurting other christians. I know that you are not convinced that he's guilty (though I believe the evidence is clear). But it means that if he is, it doesn't matter. I remind you of a few requirements of being an elder. 1. "Above reproach" (1Tim. 3:2)2. "uncontentious, free from the love of money"(1Tim. 3:3) 3. "Must have a good reputation with those outside the church" (1Tim. 3:7)

November 16, 2008 2:07 AM
Joshua said...
Becky,“Joshua it's because your like an annoying little critter so obsessed with his acorn. Go show the other squirrels while i eat my cake, okay?”More attempted insults Becky? I’m sorry but calling me “little”, an “echo”, a “critter”, etc. doesn’t influence me. Attempting to belittle me because you can’t defend your position only reveals your own insecurity.“Many times, ah, you admit you are obsessed with this and can't move on with your life. You weren't even one affected, but getting all riled up by others.”This is an outright and demonstrable lie. Please quote me where I even ONCE said that I was “obsessed with this and can’t move on with [my] life” (you should be able to since you say I “admitted” it “many times”). I have NEVER uttered this statement! I expect an apology for this, Becky. This couldn’t be further from the truth. Furthermore, *empathy* is a just and biblical motivation. I don’t need to be *directly* abused in order to justly expose an abuser. Can you show me the biblical justification for your notion that only the abused themselves are justified in exposing the abuser? Again, as I’ve said time and time again, Tom Maxham is a dear friend of mine and he was slandered/abused by your leader - this alone should be reason for you to discontinue this rhetoric about me being “unaffected”. “I have no idea how you got the idea that i'm acting like you've been emailing me privately and all that. You are asking me about issues about Morey and the Wessels. I'm not a part of it so i can't answer.”You’ve misunderstood my statements again. I’m going to paste them again for you to reread because they’re too clear to reword for you: “Regarding your last statement [“I'm not Morey and thus do not have to answer to any of your claims against him.”]: you act as if we've been emailing you privately and attempting to force you to defend Bob. No one claimed you needed to defend Bob nor asked you to. In reality, *you've* willfully and publicly countered virtually every post against Bob. This has caused myself and others to raise legitimate objections.”“I have NOT defended every post against Morey.” Exactly. That is why I said you’ve “willfully and publicly countered ***virtually*** every post against Bob”.“You're like the liberals who think that anyone who doesn't agree with their worldview is closed-minded.” Nah….I’ve simply produced documented objections to your baseless assertions. So, I don’t actually (in any way) fall into the category you’ve constructed. “Oh excuse me for not being a vicious hater like you.”Can you provide me with quotes where I demonstrated “viciousness” or “hatred” toward you along with the way you are defining these terms (as relevant to this situation)?

November 25, 2008 3:50 PM
Stupid Sheep said...
Joshua, let me try to rephrase to make it more clear; I see how it could be confusing.You said:"Again, I don't expect you to as I've asked you this question *many* times and on *every* occasion you've refused to respond."My response:"Many times"...Ah, so you admit you are obsessed.And i'm not trying to influence you by belittling you. What you do with your life is between you and God. I was just responding to your comment to Lt. about me.

Though the young lady may be a charming God fearing woman, she clearly has shown no desire to examine the evidence of Morey's wrong doing carefully. And worse yet, it doesn't matter. Her loyalty lies with the church and movement she committed to. She believes that it honors God to continue in a church that is incapable of holding their pastor accountable for his actions. We can only hope that she doesn't wait for Morey to sin against her or someone she is close to at FCC to realize the truth. Morey has used Dr Walter Martin's name to promote his ministry for years and so I'd like people to listen to what Dr. Martin had to say about Christian leaders and accountability.

Ron Hodgman had an exchange with two moreyites in the comments section of Exploring the Attributes of God blog.

Ron Hodgman Says: November 26, 2008 at 7:18 am
The fact you have interviewed this con-artist greatly lowers my opinion of your website and makes me wonder how much money you may have made as a possible Faith Defender Ministries LP partner in the sale of a church building to hotel developers.

worshipfulexplorer Says: November 27, 2008 at 3:14 pm
To your..comment, I suggest you tread carefully in the Christian life when referring to other Christians. Your language may be taken as a false witness against Robert Morey. Calling a faithful Christian such as Robert Morey such names without any justification is unbiblical and I rebuke it in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ whom has been given all authority.
Your personal opinions are irrelevant to any subjects raised here, and I ask that you repent from your open sinful activities immediately, for your own good.
Please take heed, I urge you by the mercies of God.

rzhblog Says: November 27, 2008 at 4:53 pm
I will not repent as there is lots of evidence on this matter.
http://moreylinks.blogspot.com/
This evidence is documented by the above weblink.

worshipfulexplorer Says: November 27, 2008 at 11:26 pm
The link you provided only contains single-witness accusations against a targeted person. This is not evidence. It does not meet the criteria of the Bible and should be dismissed as slander, hatred, the work of a busubody(ies), etc.
“I will not repent because you have not proven that anything I have stated is untrue.”
That won’t work, Ron. It is not up to the person receiving an accusation to prove that it is untrue. In order for a charge to be established it must have witnesses. Single-witness accusations are void, otherwise anyone can say anything about anyone at anytime. The burden is on the accuser to give biblical reasons why the receiver should even “entertain” accusations.
You were asked to repent, and I well understand that people “do not want” to repent, and for you to say “I will not repent’ is not a shock. The shock comes when one actually repents. Then the Lord is glorified.
Your “evidence” is invalid and as it stands you are bearing false witness, being a busybody, and unwilling to repent. Please do not take this lightly. Scripture alone is the final judge in cases like this. Compared to Scripture, your actions here certainly call for immediate repentance that you may receive restoration.
Note: This is the second admonishing to you already.

rzhblog Says: November 28, 2008 at 9:32 pm
Restoration to what? Morey-ism or Christianity
The evidence is valid.

worshipfulexplorer Says: November 29, 2008 at 2:00 am
1Timothy 5:9 says, “Do not receive an accusation against an elder except on the basis of two or three witnesses.”
This explicit command condemns single witness accounts against an elder. Paul is using the ancient principle revealed by God to Moses. This Old Covenant principle is not abrogated by the New Covenant Law but rather is exemplified as seen in the many passages it appears in.
2 Corinthians 13:1 quotes, “EVERY FACT IS TO BE CONFIRMED BY THE TESTIMONY OF TWO OR THREE WITNESSES.”
Paul’s final instructions to the church at Corinth make it clear that single witness accusations have no validity in the church.
Jesus quotes this too in Matthews account in 18:16, “BY THE MOUTH OF TWO OR THREE WITNESSES EVERY FACT MAY BE CONFIRMED.”
Jesus applies this to the “establishing” of a charge. If a charge is to be made it must have witnesses. If you have a conflict with a person you go to them directly. If they are not willing to hear you and repent, then you must bring witnesses with you to testify as eyewitnesses to the same event. Multiple single witnesses do not count as witnesses. The Bible mandates that a single event must have multiple witnesses. Jesus says, “take two or three with you to establish the charge.” If multiple single witnesses counted he could have said “go find others willing to testify with you to establish the charge.” But that would be inconsistent with the whole of Scripture. The Bible clearly commands that all charges be received only on the basis of two or three witnesses.
Deuteronomy 19:15 says: “A single witness shall not rise up against a man on account of any iniquity or any sin which he has committed; on the evidence of two or three witnesses a matter shall be confirmed.”
Charges and accusations are a serious matter. But only on the multiplicity of eyewitness accounts to the same event can any charge or accusation even be given the time of day. If the biblical qualifications are not met, the charge or accusation MUST be dismissed. This is a non-negotiable matter of fact revealed in Scripture.
I repeat: THIS IS A NON-NEGOTIABLE MATTER OF FACT REVEALED IN SCRIPTURE.
Since your “evidence” is a compilation of erroneous accusations that do not meet the biblical qualifications, I suggest you look to Scripture to see what you are to do in such as case. My summary of what it says, and please check for yourself, is that you are to avoid it, do not take any part in it, dismiss it, and have nothing to do with those that perpetuate it.

rzhblog Says: November 29, 2008 at 7:08 am
There has been more than two witnesses and there is the matter of the witness of a Texas Baptist Church. I have no time to deal with your cultic games.

worshipfulexplorer Says: November 29, 2008 at 2:24 pm
Unfortunately, for you, the point at which you first received the accusations, they were not presented according to the biblical standards.
There is no Texas Baptist Church witness. You are a person misled.
You failed to shun the slander on the basis that it fails to meet the biblical criteria, and instead became given over to it and now you are deep in sin.
You have been shown your error from Scripture and asked to repent.
You have admitted that you will not repent.
What you cannot say at this point is that you didn’t know you were wrong. You know you are wrong and deep in sin. What you must say is why you went ahead and continued to do what you knew was wrong; why you knew what was forbidden in Scripture and why you went ahead and continued in it anyway.

rzhblog Says: November 29, 2008 at 3:58 pm
There are several witnesses that there is a Texas Baptist church and even documentation on this matter. Just because you say there is no Texas Baptist church doesn’t make it true. You have limited your charge against me in a way that is not Biblical since there is really a Texas Baptist church involved in this matter. If I am in error you are required to take it before a real New Testament church and that church not you will judge if I am in error or not. You have no Biblical authority to say that I am in sin without a church backing you up.

Travis Says: November 29, 2008 at 5:12 pm
I am reading the 81 page document from FIRE and I will have to agree so far that 1) FIRE shouldnt have been involved and 2) most of the evidence (that I have read so far) is based on single witnesses.
until bitterness and anger is repented of this will never be resolved.
I suggest the accuseers go to Faith Community in PERSON and confront in a manner pleasing to God, and go from there.

worshipfulexplorer Says: November 29, 2008 at 8:57 pm
Ron,
1. Don’t try to switch the issue and make it seem like I am saying that there isn’t a Texas Baptist church in existence. You have publicly charged Robert Morey as a “con artist” yet you have not been conned by him. You do not have witnesses to support your claim, and even if all you’re doing is repeating another person’s claim that he is, since their claims are invalid according to the written word of God, then you become a gossiper and a busybody - 2 things severely condemned in Scripture and highly punishable by God.
2. You say: “If I am in error you are required to take it before a real New Testament church and that church not you will judge if I am in error or not.” Where do you get the idea that I am required to do this? If you feel you have Scriptural support, now would be a good time to offer it.
3. You also said: “You have no Biblical authority to say that I am in sin without a church backing you up.” Where does this idea come from? I have basically memorized the entire New Testament and I have no idea of even possible passages that you may be interpreting incorrectly to conclude as such. Again, if you feel you have Scriptural support now would be a really good time to offer it before you gain a reputation for yourself as one who arbitrarily and autonomously makes rules for Christian ethics.
Please provide the name, location, and contact info of the church to which you are a member in good standing of.

worshipfulexplorer Says: November 29, 2008 at 9:01 pm
To Travis,
You have shown wisdom in the way you are dealing with this.
May the Lord continue to bless you!

I am astounded that these individuals could refer to the evidence as "single-witness accusations". I have to say that these men have either not reviewed the evidence carefully, or are deliberately bearing false witness. If one just looks at the scandal and church split involving Morey's assistant Clark Gallagher and the many witnesses that spoke out on that. These testimonies alone should fit the requirements of Deut. 19:15, 2Cor. 13:1, and 1Tim. 5:9. But that is only the tip of the iceberg, allow me to list some of the many many witnesses of Morey's sinful conduct.

1. Larry Wessels (Former REF volunteer for Morey)

2. Gary Wessels (Former REF volunteer for Morey)

3. Bob L. Ross (Pilgrim Publications)

4. Jim Toungate (Morey's former desktop publisher)

5. Dan Rosema (Morey's former video man)

6. Pastor Charles Bullock (Official Arbitrator & Morey's former TV sponsor)

7. George Bonneau (Published several of Morey's books at Crown Publications)

8. Hank Kitchen (Former Police Investigator and researcher for Morey)

9. Mike Stephens (Former Bob Morey Live producer, FD staffer, and FCC member)

10. Tom Maxham (Former FD staff member and counselor at FCC)

11. James Mulroney (Former FD staff member and FCC member)

12. Joel Hughes (Former FCC member)

13. Joey Enriquez (Former FCC member)

14. Glenn Hendrickson (Former FCC member)

15. Drew Kerr (Former FCC elder)

16. Henry Nowakowski (Former FCC elder)

17. Mike Robirds (Former FCC men's descipleship leader)

18. Joshua Young (Former FCC member)

19. Javier Villigran (Former FCC member)

20. Lenny Gerkin (Former FCC member)

Now if you list the wives of this small list of names, the number could double. And this is without the board of FIRE and the list of testimonies they have of former FCC members. But how do all of these witnesses constitute "single-witness accusations"? Or if I may ask it another way, how many witnesses does it take for a moreyite to admitt we have met the requirements of Deut. 19:15, 2Cor. 13:1, 1Tim. 5:9?

But I see a clear double standard in play here, Morey has stated that he has zero respect for Hank Hanegraaff. Morey uses the evidence provided by the Martin family to illustrate the case against Hank Hanegraaff. But what kind of evidence does the Martin family have? It is eye witness accounts from former CRI employees testifying to his unethical behaviour. In fact, there was a "Group for CRI Accountability" that was formed to deal with the financial issues. Many don't know this but two of the members of that group were Mike Stephens, and George Bonneau. Do those names sound familiar? These men have also worked with Dr. Robert A. Morey and have testified to his unethical behaviour. Why is their testimony valid when they speak out against Hank Hanegraaff but not against Robert Morey? Why are all of the witness(es) considered "apostate", disgruntled", "busybody", "single-witness accusations" when it comes to Morey but not when it comes to Hanegraaff? Joel Hughes wrote an article entitled Frightening Parallels Between Morey and Hanegraaff, showing the similarities between them. But I guess if you support and benefit from Morey's ministry and church group you can say there is no evidence with a wave of the hand labeling it "slander and gossip", "single witness accusations" and give him a pass. Though Morey's desciples practice accountability with one another, it is impossible for Morey to be held accountable by a church that refuses to honor this biblical mandate on their pastor.

Perhaps another definition for a Morey-ite...

2008-11-30T17:06:00.000-08:00

What / Who Are Moreyites?

2008-11-21T22:16:00.000-08:00

At Biblical Thought blog there was an interesting question posted in the comments section. The answer given by the BT blogger is very intriguing for me because it shows a little something about the mind set of a disciple of Bob Morey.

DS
What / Who are a moreyites?
Nov 19th, 2008

There is technically no fixed definition for the term "moreyite" given that there are a so few of them. The term moreyite is used to denote a disciple of the teaching ministry of Dr. Robert A. Morey. They tend to display many or all of the following characteristics in varying degrees.

1. They accept the claims and assertions of Bob Morey on his personal and academic background at face value.
2. They unquestioningly accept Bob Morey's claims on theology, philosophy, and history as fact.
3. They emulate and repeat Bob Morey's talking points verbatim in discussions of faith and morals.
4. They (like Bob Morey) condescendingly belittle other Christians that disagree with them and people of other faiths accusing them of changing the subject.
5. They turn away any evidence of wrong doing on the part of Bob Morey always giving him the benefit of the doubt.
6. They disassociate from former church members that find Bob Morey's behaviour to be unethical.
7. They charge any critic of Bob Morey with "slander and gossip" (a Morey mantra) and call former FCC members "disgruntled" and "apostates".

This is just a working definition and description of some of the negative characteristics that these people share. They are also very zealous for the things of God and treat each other as a family when you become part of that circle. They are theologically oriented bunch that have a fire to teach and preach the gospel to a dying world. But once you step outside that circle, things change as outlined point 6.

Mario
Moreyites, Are those people who gain an interest and focus in a man. They are not really there to be an active part of the body.

This is not how the term has been used by those who are no longer in ministry with Morey. Most if not all those who have worked with Morey belong to other churches involving themselves in other ministries. Larry Wessels for instance has a ministry that continues to do apologetics on Islam, Roman Catholicism, and the cults.

Identifying and exercising gifts, being a blessing to those around them, being accountable to God through each other. In the end, when things don’t work out the way they expect, they leave because they are not really interested in the church, which is made up of believers, not a building or any individual man!

This is clearly a false statement by the blogger for two reasons.
1. These people continue to serve God elsewhere.
2. He cannot see into the heart of those who have left FCC and judge their motives.

We are well aware of the fact that we as sinners, wil fail each others expectations, violate each others rights at times.

This by the way is an example of point 3 where Morey tells all his followers that he will fail them...

But we are soldiers in the Army of the King of Kings! We press on together, and we by grace alone, through faith alone, in Christ alone, are not those who abandon our brothers! We stand together and reach out as aministry to the world!
Nov 20th, 2008

The phrase "We....are not those who abandon our brothers!" I find ironic in light of points 6 and 7. But we will continue to pray and hope that one day they will realize that we care for them and hope that they will see Dr. Robert Morey for who he is.

They are nothing more than disgruntled, bitter, apostasized morey-haters, said the SLURPEES...

2008-11-17T22:51:00.000-08:00

The following was brought to our attention by our friend Ron Hodgman of "True Faith Defenders Blog". Please read the absurdity after Tom N-U asks for a response. Mind you, Tom N-U copied this statement from Jacob Prasch's website. And for those of you who are not in the know, Jacob Prasch is Robert Morey's Kryptonite!

I bet'cha the prophets of Baal' asked that same question of Elijah, "Don't you have anything better to do?"

I find it obscenely comical how morey worshiper Mario Herrera states, "Faith Community OC is thriving..." yet it's been reported time and time again that God's Children are being ushered out of Robert Morey's church in droves. I guess when you're under the spell of thieves and liars, "thriving" takes on a whole other meaning.

Larry Wessels Email About Robert Morey

2008-11-07T20:51:00.000-08:00

Greetings to all,

As many of you already know, the previous couple of weeks have been very interesting. Before I get into all of that I'd like to let you know about the informative material from the Apologetics Index concerning "Abusive Churches Discourage Questions." This subject definitely relates to current events & you should find it fascinating reading.

I was planning to send out a general update a few weeks ago but one event after another kept happening that I found myself constantly being delayed. Many of you are already aware of some of the things I'll mention here since I did e-mail some of the goings on to a limited number of you with appended attachments & documentation.

The Fellowship of Independent Evangelicals (F.I.R.E.) has kicked Robert Morey of Faith Defenders out of their organization. The board of that organization issued a statement to all their members citing their reasons why. They have not officially allowed a public posting of their announcement yet but some of the things they mentioned after substantial evidence was reviewed (inside sources say they had at least 11 signed statements from witnesses) were: Morey abused his pastoral authority, badly mistreated people, & refused to meet with the FIRE board to discuss these issues. The FIRE board unanimously asked Morey to resign from their organization which he did. Morey, in his typical fraudulent fashion, put a whole new spin on this story blaming FIRE instead of himself on his website trying to hide the gravity of this situation under the rug from the general public. This is what Morey always does when he is caught red-handed, he just tries to focus blame somewhere else.

Early in October 2008 Morey's "Faith Defenders" filed a "copyright infringement" complaint with Yahoo!.com through their copyright department to have the 13 anti-Morey long version videos we had posted on Yahoo Video removed from the Internet. Morey's "infringement" argument succeeded in knocking our 13 shows off temporarily. I contacted a local copyright specific law firm here in Austin & worked with them to counter-notify Yahoo!.com that this "copyright infringement" argument by Faith Defenders was bogus. Yahoo!.com then gave Morey & his "Faith Defenders" cult 10 days to sue us in court with a restraining order. Of course we were ready to go to court & prove our case but as it turned out "Truth Seeker" Bob & his band of "Faith Defenders" turned tail & did nothing! Therefore, Yahoo!.com reinstated our right to have our anti-Morey videos re posted on Yahoo Video. At the time of this writing we have uploaded 2 of the original 13 shows: 1. "Does God Love Everybody? Faith Defenders Robert Morey Condemns Himself & 2. The Christian & Conspiracies: Faith Defenders Robert Morey Falsely Accuses #2. To see these just go to Yahoo Video & once on their homepage search "Robert Morey" Hopefully over the next week or two we'll have all of the rest of them back up. By the way, you can still see all 13 long version shows on Google Video right now since they remained online the entire time. This waste of time incident with Morey's bogus "infringement" garbage reminds me of the 1990's when he fraudulently took away my home telephone number by sending the telephone company a fake letter supposedly by someone else (this is all documented here). One of our 58 shows dealing with Morey on Youtube also covers this. By the way, our Youtube shows on Morey have now had over 11,000 viewings!

Morey is currently circulating the rumor that he may have a "life threatening" illness of some kind. Morey's record of being a fraud & con man is well established. That's why I am able to put all this stuff on the Internet & shout this stuff about Morey from the mountain tops because everything I'm saying about his fraudulent activity is true & documented & he can't do a thing about it. Now why in the world would I believe a man like this when he says he has a "life threatening illness"? What better way for a con man to get sympathy & support. If I say "I'm dying" then everybody feels sorry for me. Don't believe this man unless he can come up with verifiable medical proof that has been validated by independent sources. Has he told anyone what this "life threatening illness" specifically is? So far the best evidence I've heard for Morey being ill comes from my dear friend Bob L. Ross who simply told me in a short e-mail that Morey "looks" like he is ill based on some of his latest photos.

Finally, I did report Morey to several law enforcement agencies for criminal investigation. I sent my complaints via e-mail & certified mail & I have my signed certified receipts back from all of them. I filed a criminal complaint with the Internal Revenue Service for all the financial mischief Morey has been up to at his "Faith Community Church" & his "Faith Defenders" outfit, not to mention his dealings with others, I reported Morey for mail fraud to the United States Postal Inspection Service, I reported Morey to the Federal Bureau of Investigation on a wide range of issues, & I reported Morey for criminal investigation to the Orange County District Attorney's office. The Orange County District Attorney wrote me a letter suggesting I report Morey to the Police Department where Morey resides (Orange, California). I'll get around to doing that soon. The District Attorney's letter closed with the encouraging statement, "we intend to consider your complaint further. If it is determined that legal action by this office is appropriate, you will be contacted."

Anyway, you can see that October was a busy month.

Stay close to the Lord Jesus Christ in these evil days,

Larry Wessels
1Peter 3:15

Below is a picture of the letter sent to Larry Wessels mentioned above.

A Morey Voting for a Muslim President Obama?

2008-11-02T23:17:00.000-08:00

Ruthanne Morey Reid (Robert A. Morey's daughter) has Voted for Mr. Barack Hussein Obama! Read her hilarious reasonings: http://doortoriver.com/blog/2008/10/why-obama/

Guess the apple really doesn't fall to far from the tree after all!

According to Poppa Morey, daughter Ruthanne Morey Reid has just voted for America's first Black Muslim President of these United States!

Visit here to hear audio of "Dr." Morey calling Mr. Obama a Muslim!

Dysfunctional family atmosphere anyone?

Happy Reformation Day!

2008-10-31T12:02:00.000-07:00

On this night when we find children walking door to door dressed in costumes asking for candy. Let us remember the event that changed the world by the rediscovery of the gospel. On October 31, 1517 a young and trouble Augustinian monk named Martin Luther posted his 95 thesis against the sale of indulgences by the church of Rome. This spearheaded what we now call the 16th century protestant reformation which influenced our theology, culture, and politics. Let us praise God for the freedom He has provided us to worship and proclaim His gospel of grace and truth.

Sola Fide

Sola Gratia

Sola Cristo

Soli Deo Gloria

Sola Scriptura

A Response To Dr. Robert Morey's Letter To FIRE!

2008-10-28T17:26:00.000-07:00

Dr. Robert A. Morey was recently asked to resign his membership from the Fellowship of Independent Reformed Evangelicals (FIRE) by the board. Morey has posted a response to FIRE at his Faith Defenders website. I would like us to take a look at some of Morey's comments. Morey's comments are in bold and mine are in blue so that the reader can follow along.

Dear Brothers: Withrow, Krogh, Ray, Anderson, Crotts, Elliff, Flatt, Marcellino, Newheiser, and Sale,

(1) You have refused to participate in a conference call requested by members of the FIRE Board to talk with you about concerns that have been brought to our attention.

Comment: Since I was not the elder who dealt with Maxham, I sent you to talk with the elder who did so. I would not be able to answer some of your questions as I was not involved in the non-compliance of Maxham.

However, Morey was the only elder at FCC at the time. If you look at the Timeline of FCCOC Eldership you see that Morey ordained elders after Maxham's departure from FCC. This means that even if Morey didn't know every detail (being that he appointed someone else to deal with Maxham) he is still responsible as the then sole elder at FCC.

We did not know that the issue had been secretly switched from Maxhamʼs non-compliance to slander against me personally. I am forbidden by Scripture to answer slander and gossip. I am sorry you did not understanding that I would sin against my Lord if I did so.

Morey has perfected the art of accusing others of the very things that he himself does. The situation with Maxham was what moved FIRE to look into Morey's behaviour as an elder of a church. But the moment someone examines his personal character (which is one of the qualifications of an elder) he accuses them of "slander and gossip." This mantra is a brilliant Morey tactic that keeps his most loyal followers at bay from the truth. Scripture does command us not to "slander and gossip", or not to listen to the counsel of "slander and gossip" but I don't know one that states not to answer it. Surely Paul defended himself from the "slander and gossip" of the Judaizers and the Corinthians that challenged his authority.

Notice how many times Morey mentions or accuses others of his mantra of "slander" and "gossip", it is a great way to play the martyr.

(2) We have received overwhelming substantial and consistent documentation and testimonies that reveal a pattern of abusing pastoral authority and injuring Christʼs sheep that cannot be tolerated within FIRE.

Comment: Since we have never heard of or seen such documentation, we do not know what you are talking about. Scripture tells us that it is gossip and slander to listen such things (1 Tim. 5:19).

Was Paul guilty of "gossip and slander" when he said "It is actually reported that there is immorality among you, and immorality of such a kind as does not exist even among the Gentiles, that someone has his father's wife." (1Cor. 5:1). And 1Tim. 5:19 talks about needing two or three witnesses in accusing an elder of wrongdoing. It is clear from all the documentation and witnesses provided on the Internet that we have satisfied the requirements of this passage.

I am guessing it is a petition with names on it of people who say that I am mean or something like that. I am surprised that anyone would take such a silly document seriously.

I suppose Morey would be "surprised that" Paul would have taken such "a silly document seriously". Paul wrote to Timothy about qualifications of an elder, "he must have a good reputation with those outside the church, so that he will not fall into reproach and the snare of the devil." (1Timothy 3:7)

a. Korah and over 300 leaders gave “overwhelming substantial and consistent documentation and testimonies” against Moses in Num. 16.2
b. The enemies of Paul gave “overwhelming substantial and consistent documentation and testimonies” against him in Acts 24:1-9.
c. Jesus was convicted by “overwhelming substantial and consistent documentation and testimonies” by his enemies.

The people in these passages were challenging the authority of men we know gave "God-breathed" revelation to them. With Jesus they had to twist his words and lie about him as the gospels tell us they did. How the testimonies of those men constitute "overwhelming substantial and consistent documentation and testimonies" is beyond me. The issue with Morey is whether these witnesses are telling the truth about his abusive character. And to parallel them to the biblical witnesses that we know were in sinful in their actions against the saints merely begs the question. Morey is accusing them of slander while not dealing with the evidence.

d. The same was true of Luther, Calvin, etc.

With the reformers the same principle applies, we believe that they were right to fight against Rome. The Reformers even answered the slander against them (which Morey claims is forbidden in scripture) and we believe they vindicated their work. The evidence of Morey's abusive behaviour has not been answered and hence stands.

The leadership and congregations of New Life Bible Church and FCC could sign a statement that I have not taught heresy, committed immorality, or abused my authority. Would this satisfy you?

No it wouldn't, because these people have not been injured by Morey yet. The current witnesses against Morey would have gladly signed that same petition in his favor years ago. They now hold a different opinion about his character. The question is why would people that loved him and worked with him now call for his repentance of sinful wrongdoing. Supposing someone had stolen your car and you had 7 witnesses and other evidence that someone you knew was the guilty party. You found out that there were others throughout the years that have testified to his pattern of theft. But then you had a group of witnesses that say he's never done that to them. Would we acquit him of the crime simply because he didn't steal from everyone?

You would end up with two sets of documentation:
(1.) the leaders and members of the continuing churches who testify that their pastor is gracious and loving man who follows the Bible in everything he does;

Mostly people who have not looked at the history of evidence of Morey's abusive character and have not been victims themselves.

(2.) those who were disciplined or left in sympathy with those disciplined or left for no known reason, who testify that the pastor is a mean man who hurt their feelings.

Or they could be God fearing people that came to the realization that Morey was an unethical man and could not continue to submit to him as a pastor. People that looked up to him as a spiritual leader and were eventually injured by his actions. But this is an interesting point by Morey because he recognizes that he has this reputation among many. This in spite of the fact that scripture tells us what a servant of God should be. "The Lord's bond-servant must not be quarrelsome, but be kind to all, able to teach, patient when wronged, with gentleness correcting those who are in opposition, if perhaps God may grant them repentance leading to the knowledge of the truth, and they may come to their senses and escape from the snare of the devil, having been held captive by him to do his will." (2Tim 2:24-26) Even though the passage speaks about how a servant of God should treat an unbeliever, the principle applies all the more when dealing with members of the church. And "gentleness" is not a gift that any honest person can say Morey has mastered.

How would you determine which group was telling the truth?

By examining the evidence and weighing the testimonies of the witnesses and determining the truth of the matter.

1. The fallacy of ad populum. Whoever has more names than the other?

No one says that whoever has more witnesses is right so this is a straw-man. However, Morey is admitting that there are more witnesses against him than for him. This is an admittion on his part of the negativity of his reputation among many christians. Let us remember what Paul said to Timothy "he must have a good reputation with those outside the church, so that he will not fall into reproach and the snare of the devil." (1Tim. 3:7)

Moses would have been condemned!

Well we know from scripture that the witnesses were wrong. But is Morey suggesting that Moses should not have been held accountable if he had been guilty of wrong doing?

2. Take each accusation apart to see if it has any hard evidence to back it up. This will take months to do and exhaust all the men and churches involved.

This sounds very convenient for any christian leader that is suspected of wrongdoing. The problem with this statement is that if Morey is guilty of sinning against the saints, we should not bother to "exhaust all the men and churches involved". If this is the case, then what is the point of having accountability in church anyway?

3. The burden of proof is on the accuser, not on the accused to disprove.

The "burden" has been met with Morey's history of scandals.

If someone slanders a pastor- having never come first to him in private in obedience to Matt. 18 - by what biblical basis do you take seriously such accusations? The first thing I ask when someone comes to me and slanders someone is, “Have you first gone to this person in private? If not, I will not listen to you until you follow Matt. 18.”

If one listens to the testimonies of the witnesses against him, one can see that Morey has been confronted about things. And when this takes place, Morey then slanders them questioning their mental states and accuses them of gossip and slander. One instance is found with two former members of FCC that Morey "handed over to Satan".

With respect to (1), Dr. Jim Newheiser, in accord with Scripture and our Constitution, requested assistance from FIRE in resolving issues affecting “the peace, unity and edification” of several churches and individuals (FIRE Constitution Article 7.F). FIRE Moderator Greg Withrow emailed you on Oct 2, 2008 and said, “In reviewing correspondence between yourself and Grace Bible Church, as well as the testimony of current and former leaders and members in your ministry,we felt that we needed to contact you and discuss the issues that have arisen. We have concerns for you as a fellow Pastor, as well as concerns regarding your involvement as an individual member in FIRE. We are requesting that you join us in a conference call.” Although you agreed to this process when you applied for membership in FIRE, you rejected the Boardʼs request, insisting that, “We must make it absolutely clear that according to our doctrinal statement, we cannot and will not ask FIRE or any other outsiders to arbitrate or adjudicate our internal church business such as Maxhamʼs resignation. You have no biblical authority to intrude into the internal affairs of member churches.” Dr. Morey, not only do we have no authority to intrude into the internal affairs of member churches, we also have no desire to do so. However, Acts 15 supports the idea of elders from several churches conferring together to resolve issues that affect the churches. Such a church council has no authority to impose its findings on a local church or its officers, but it can publish its findings and recommendations to all concerned. Surely we can agree that there is wisdom in a multitude of counselors. This is the biblical basis for The 1689 Confession 26.15 and also for our FIRE Constitution Article 7.F. The effects of your actions have overflowed the boundaries of your church and have affected other churches and individuals. Consequently, we have been asked to provide assistance in resolving these matters. While we have no authority to compel you to participate in a conference call, we think that you were unwise in rejecting the opportunity to meet with us.

Comment: The Acts 15 council was not called to discuss the complaints of people against a pastor. I have reread the passage and do not see any discussion of any slander or gossip against some pastor. The council dealt with DOCTRINAL issues that affected the entire church. Your interpretation of the passage is wrong. The doctrinal issues related to the Jewish-Gentile relationship.

There are two things that I observe from Morey's comment here.

1. Morey seems to think that either:
a. FIRE believes that Acts 15 was about "slander or gossip against some pastor".
b. You cannot draw a pedagogical principle from Acts 15 about the churches working together to resolve an issue.

However, FIRE has never stated that the passage deals with "slander or gossip against some pastor". And if Morey is denying the principle behind Acts 15 then he would have to reject the passages he quoted above regarding Moses, Paul, and Jesus. After all those passages were not dealing with "slander or gossip against some pastor" in a local church were they?

2. Morey as a member of FIRE is admitting that he is not abiding by the FIRE Constitution Article 7.F.

Furthermore, you sought to avoid interaction with us by directing us to Elder James Epperly to answer our concerns and stated that “In order to abide with the Board's resolutions, I must refrain from dealing with him [Tom Maxham] any further.” We sought to speak with you only about our concerns, but you have since included your Board in correspondence directed to us. Dr. Morey, we will respect your desire to include your Board in our communications, but we want to remind you that you are a member of FIRE, not them, and our concern is with your behavior, not theirs. We will continue to communicate directly with you as a FIRE member but will copy our correspondence to your Board as you wish.

Comment: The original issue with Newheiser was Tom Maxhamʼs non compliance, resignation, and then schismatic sins.

However Morey has not proven that Tom Maxham is guilty of "schismatic sins" this is Morey's allegation. It is Morey and Epperly who have the burden of proof for this claim.

Somewhere along the way, Newhesier switched the issue to ad hominem attacks against me personally.

As I mentioned above, Morey now accuses Newheiser of switching the "issue to ad hominem attacks against" Morey. When Newheiser was simply trying to find out the truth regarding the situation between him and Maxham. Let us not forget the qualifications of in elder explained by Paul in 1Timothy 3.

If some disgruntled ex-member of a church has a problem with the leadership of his past church, then he has Matt. 18 to follow.

Which they have and has resulted in several church splits in Pennsylvania and California.

With respect to (2), while it is true that "the first to present his case seems right, till another comes forward and questions him" (Prov 18:17), if the other party refuses to cooperate then the first to present his case seems, well, right! Because you have refused to meet with us in a conference call as we requested, we are left to draw our conclusions based upon the evidence and testimonies that we have received. We believe the evidence of pastoral improprieties and the gross mistreatment of people is overwhelming.

Comment: Since we thought the issue was Maxham, I referred you to the elder in charge of him. You did not tell us that you had changed the issue. You should said, “Look, Bob, Newheiser has put together a document of all the slander and gossip he could find. Although these accusations have no hard evidence to support them, they do say you are “mean.” We have read some “tasty morsels” (Pro. 18:8) and would like you to answer these accusations.”

Following the Dr. Robert Morey play book, he now mocks and accuses Newheiser of putting "together a document of all the slander and gossip he could find" against him. But how does Morey know that there is "no hard evidence to support them" if he had "never heard or seen such documentation" as he claims?

Speaking candidly, this Board of pastors, your peers, unanimously agrees that your actions are inappropriate and are grounds for disqualification from ministry. While recognizing that authority for removal from ministry belongs to Faith Community Church, we do have the authority to seek your removal from membership in FIRE. We therefore request your immediate resignation as an individual member of FIRE. If you do not resign, we will begin the process to bring this matter with the appropriate documentation and testimonies to the attention of the full membership of FIRE with our unanimous recommendation that you be removed from membership at the next National Conference.

COMMENT: I can see where this is going. As friends of Newhesier, you have already pre-judged and pre-condemned me without a trial on the basis of sinful and groundless gossip and slander that fails to meet biblical qualifications. You have violated Deut. 19, Matt. 18, 1 Tim. 5, etc. .

Well again Morey goes from being questioned to accusing others of sinful behaviour. He accuses FIRE of precondemning him without meeting the "biblical qualifications." It's funny to me that Morey says that they violated the above passages when it was he that refused to have a conference call with them on the issue.

You rejected the vast amount of biblical material I sent you and have chosen slander over Scripture, friendship over Lordship. If I resign from or am thrown out of FIRE, Newheiser will use that to redeem Maxham at NANC. That, of course, is his goal. You have allowed him to manipulate you into his smear campaign on the behalf of his friend Maxham. I admonish you brothers for being so gullible.

And now Morey pontificates how FIRE is being manipulated by Newheiser to believe the so-called "slander" against him. Bare in mind that Morey has not proven his accusations against FIRE, Newheiser, or Maxham. He is now engaging in the very actions of "slander and gossip" that he spends so much time condemning.

Now we have a decision to make:

a. We could show up and debate you publicly at the next FIRE meeting on the biblical issues that apply to this situation and with ease destroy the flimsy accusations made against me.

These are strong words but we have yet to see the evidence to back it up. Anyone can say this and make his followers cheer for him, but it's another to actually do it.

We have never heard a single accusation that was credible or met the biblical qualifications.

Well this is a shock, Morey says he's innocent. That must make it true right? But who decides what "accusation" is "credible" against Morey? Are we to ask Morey for approval?

b. We could show up with godly people from my previous churches who would testify that I am a gracious, loving pastor.

What about the people that were involved in the church splits in Pennsylvania and California? Will their testimonies count? Or will Morey dismiss their testimonies branding them as "gossip and slander" not provide evidence as usual.

c. Newheiser would show up people whose blogs and internet sites are filled with “bitterness and wrath and anger and clamor and slander” (Eph. 4:31).

This answers part of my question, but how does he know they are angry or bitter? Can he see into their hearts and make that judgment? Is it not even hypothetically possible that they want justice done? Could they want to warn other potential victims?

d. FIRE would explode as pastors would divide over whether FIRE should be used for such things. It would become a circus.
e. Other long standing disagreements among other pastors would now have to be debated and judged. FIRE would become a nasty negative experience.

How does Morey know that this would happen? Are we suppose to believe this would happen because Morey says so? Why can't it be that FIRE abides by their Constitution Article 7.F. and continues to edify the body of Christ in this regard?

f. Or do we at FCC do the gracious thing?
1. protect the members of FIRE from the foolishness of its leaders;
2. protect the members of the churches involved from the emotional turmoil of having to deal with old internal issues;
3. avoid wasting more time and energy on silly accusations that fail to meet biblical qualifications;
4. avoid wasting time on an issue that has already been pre-judged by those who are not willing to submit to biblical standards;
5. avoid tearing apart FIRE by public debate and chaos;

Given that Morey has concluded that FIRE is guilty of the following (unproven) errors. He now pretends to take the moral high ground leaving FIRE saving them from waisting time in turmoil. And now doesn't have to be held accountable for his actions as he has continually done.

We have always said that Newhesier is free to accept Maxham. We did not involve FIRE. We did not change the issue from Maxham to slander and gossip. If the accusations do not concern morals or doctrine but matters of discipline and ministerial judgment, there is no group above the local church to adjudicate such things. You are free to disagree with our doctrine just as we are free to disagree with yours.

Actually it is Morey who has changed the subject, the issue was Morey's unethical behaviour towards Maxham and several others. Though Morey is not guilty of teaching heresy, this is an issue of morals, but again Morey is accusing FIRE of changing the issue when it is he who is changing the issue. He is accusing them of listening to slander and gossip against him, when in reality they had documentation and witnesses against him. Those are two very different things.

Be assured that we have forgiven you for your foolishness. Hopefully, you have already decided that FIRE will never again get involved with such a “tar baby.” Hopefully, other pastors will not be put through such nonsense. Future pastors will thank us for keeping FIRE from being used for personal vendettas.

First he calls them foolish, then says they will thank him for it. This speaks volumes about him.

Lastly, brethren, there is lost world going to hell out there. There are Muslims who want to kill us. The gospel is being denied as never before by heretics all over the place. And, while the world and church are burning, we are fiddling away on issues of whether some disgruntled ex member of a church feels that his pastor was “mean.” Shame on us!

Once again, this is not about "disgruntled" ex members feeling their pastor was mean, it is about holding an elder accountable for his actions. This again is "changing the issue" which he so clearly condemns.

I was sitting with Francis Schaeffer in Switzerland one day when he gave me the following illustration that has shaped and formed my ministry to this day. “The church is like ship at sea that is slowing sinkingbecause the enemy has punched holes in the bottom of the ship below the water line. Bob, your gifts for writing are wonderful and I want you to use them to patch the holes below the water line. While you are dealing with the great issues such as the existence of God, others are up on deck arguing over rearranging deck furniture while the ship is sinking. Do notwaste your time arguing over deck furniture.” To my shame, I forgot his kind exhortation and wasted valuable time arguing over deck furniture with you. Please forgive me for not understanding this sooner and the need to redeem the time because the days are evil. I hold no personal animosity against you or anyone else (including Maxham, Newheiser, et al). I agree with Paul that is always foolish to defend your reputation (2 Cor. 11:21). Let us then leave to the Great Judge to reveal the hearts and motives of men on the day when each manʼs ministry will be examined. To Him alone be the glory both now and forever more, Amen!

We agree whole heartedly that you should "not waste your time arguing over deck furniture," but this does not give any christian leader a right to injure Christ's sheep. This does not give any pastor the right to abuse their power and accuse them of "slander and gossip" while in the process slandering them and causing them pain. When Saul of Tarsus was on the road to Damascus persecuting the church, the Lord Jesus told him that it was a persecution of the Lord Jesus himself. To injure the saints is to injure the very body of Christ, hopefully one day Dr. Robert Morey will understand that.

My resignation is effective as of Oct. 12, 2008. No future communication will be forth coming. We all have better things to do with our time.

JUDE 3
Brother Morey

Hopefully one day Morey will see the error of his ways and repent of his sins against the saints and restore his broken relationships.

California Measure Prop 8, And The Presidential Election

2008-10-23T15:31:00.000-07:00

This November 4th we will be electing a new president along with our other leaders in Washington and home state. Proposition 8 has caught my eye since it reflects the significance of the cultural change in our nation. Prop 8 will eliminate same sex marriage to be recognized by the state of California as a legitimate marital union.

These adds are found on the Internet and television promoting the rights of same sex couples to marry. Now if you are a Christian, then the moral aspect of this issue is biblically settled. There is no question that this is wrong, Lev. 20:13, Rom. 1, 1Cor. 6:9, for openers. But given that we live in an era that promotes homosexuality as an alternative lifestyle and frowns upon the biblical code of conduct, these verses are considered out dated. The adds that are being posted for prop 8 are concerned with how this lifestyle will be taught to our children in schools. And this is a valid concern, but what is at stake goes much further than just teaching this alternative lifestyle to kids. This is about the very definition of marriage and the consequences that follow from this paradign. This country has historically fought for a christian view of traditional family values on marriage being between one man and one woman.

If you believe that same sex marriage should be recognized by all, then there are a questions to consider. By what philosophical, sociological, or political basis can you deny a person's right to a polygamous marriage? Should we recognize marriage between siblings? What if a woman wants to marry her biological father? What if a man wants to marry his biological mother? What will the new definition of marriage be? If you deny any of these unions, there must be a logical reason to do so. If you don't see anything wrong with any of these unions then you have rendered the very institution of marriage meaningless.

If you are a christian, you may be wondering if your vote will even matter. You may feel that the polls indicate that the election is already decided. I would remind you that the polls are not always reliable, in 1984 the polls indicated a closer race when on election day Reagan won by a landslide. In 1996 the polls indicated Clinton was ahead by 15 to 20 points when he won by 7. This election will not be decided until November 4th. I believe that because of this defeatist mentality that many Christians stay home on elections and in essence surrender their vote. I've often wondered what would happen if we all spoke with one united voice to elect a president. Maybe some day I'll find out.

Many of you may feel that the election is lost no matter which candidate wins. But as you elect your next president and other public officials consider what you are voting for. For instance, if prop 8 passes in California it will probably be challenged in court by liberal activists and possibly be thrown out as "unconstitutional" (apparently same sex marriage is protected by the constitution) by liberal judges. But who appoints our supreme court judges? It is our elected leaders that put them there. Consider the issues as a whole as they impact our culture when you vote. If traditional family values matter to you, then prayerfully vote for the candidates that will appoint judges that will enforce God honoring laws. Ask yourself which candidate is against abortion? Which candidate is against same sex marriage being recognized by the state? Which candidate is more qualified to protect you from terrorism? Which candidate is against raising taxes?

Please consider all these issues as November 4th approaches, the Lord's will be done.

Dr. Robert Morey Has Health Issues!

2008-10-16T12:34:00.000-07:00

I've been informed that Faith Defenders has sent out an e-newsletter stating that Morey "is dealing with some serious health issues that are potentially life-threatening". If Morey is in this kind of danger, then we should show our loving concern in prayer for his physical well being. This would not be a time for ex-FCC members hurt by Morey to say "he's finally getting his" or anything of the kind. We must remember what our Lord said "love your enemies, and pray for those who persecute you in order that you may be sons of your Father who is in heaven; for He causes His sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous." (Mt 5:44-45) We must be mindful of our thoughts if we find that those who have hurt us may be hurting themselves. A very important distinction must be made at this point.

1. We desire for Robert Morey to receive healing from God if he is in this serious a condition.
2. We desire for Robert Morey to repent of his sins against the saints and make peace with them.
3. We desire for Robert Morey to set up a way to be held accountable for any past or future unethical behaviour.

Voting for Obama w/ McCain's Policies?

2008-10-15T13:13:00.000-07:00

The following was forwarded to me in an email. This is just more proof that people are voting for Obama simply because he's black! Pitiful!

If you are thinking of voting for Obama, and are fully informed of his record, his racist associations (including his church of 20 years where Farrakhan was welcomed and hatred of whitey was preached) and agree with his voting record, then, this will probably offend you.

But if you were thinking of voting for Obama and know about as much as those in the interviews in the attached link, PLEASE check the facts.
I know McCain is not the best candidate ever put forth, but KNOW who and WHAT you are voting for. Obama is THE #1 MOST LIBERAL SENATOR. BIDEN is #3.
I am embarrassed to be a part of the America represented here in this link.
I’ve been depressed thinking about how incredibly blinded Americans have become in regards to Obama. It reminds me of how God blinded some from seeing the truth so that only the elect would see the truth. Anyway, check this out (I believe it is Howard Stern) http://www.bpmdeejays.com/upload/hs_sal_in_Harlem_100108.mp3.

David is Beloved and Successful

2008-10-06T13:59:00.000-07:00

Text: I Samuel 18
Speaker: Jim Newheiser
Outline: PDF
Audio Mp3: Listen Here
Date: September 28, 2008

What is the secret to success? The world might say that status, power and good looks are vital. King Saul has all of these, yet by I Samuel 18 he is in sharp decline.

David, on the other hand, is loved by almost everyone and all that he does prospers. The reason is that God is with him. Because of David’s success and popularity Saul becomes jealous and tries to destroy him, even using his own daughter as a pawn in his schemes. The LORD, however, has departed from Saul so that his attempts to destroy David fail. Saul, in his foolish jealousy and anger, serves as a warning to us.

What matters most in our lives is not the approval of men, or even worldly measures of success. The most important thing is that God, Who opposes the proud but gives grace to the humble, is with us.

We may have troubles (or even Sauls) in our lives, but we live in confidence that the LORD is sovereignly working out His good purpose in and through us.

Mike Christopulos Writes To Herman Otten Regarding Bob Morey!

2008-09-26T22:31:00.000-07:00

Here are picture scans of a letter written to Herman Otten of the Christian News regarding his endorsement of Morey's book on Eastern Orthodoxy. The pdf version of the letter can be downloaded here.

A New Blog Has Emerged Documenting Bob Morey's Latest Controversy!

2008-09-26T21:40:00.001-07:00

For years Bob Morey has been criticised for being the lone elder at FCC, accountability being the constant concern with him. This concern took center stage with the controversy regarding Morey's former assistant Pastor Clark Gallagher in Jan. of 2007 resulting in an FCC church split. Then again earlier this year with the controversy involving three FCC staff members that departed from the ministry resulting in yet another FCC church split. Joel Hughes has written several blog articles on The Abuses Of Dr. Robert Morey. A few months after this, finally on May 18th, 2008 Morey ordained three elders at FCC. But then two months later a shocking turn of events, yet another controversy erupted resulting in two of the elders resigning their position and removing themselves from the membership of FCC on July 18th, 2008. A new blog has emerged documenting the goings on at the FCC elders meetings that lead up to the departure of these two elders. This situation is also connected to the departure of Glenn Hendrickson and the posts that he has made relating to Morey's abuses. And so the Dr. Robert A. Morey saga continues...

The 1992 REF Tax Form With The Signature Of Dr. Robert A. Morey!

2008-09-26T21:20:00.000-07:00

For those who haven't seen them, here are some picture scans regarding the 1992 REF Tax Form.
We can see two things from this first picture scan.
1. The IRS received this document as it is seen in this picture.
2. It indicates that there were loans payable to an almost combined 33,000 dollars to Larry and Gary Wessels.

We can see three things from this picture scan.
1. Point 41 states that "The books are in care of Anne Morey" (Robert Morey's wife).
2. It was signed by none other than Dr. Robert A. Morey himself.
3. The 1992 REF Tax Form was prepared by Gary Wessels with Robert Morey present.

This last scan reveals that the form was mailed by Dr. Bob himself.

George Bonneau Speaks About His Court Cases Against Dr. Robert Morey!

2008-09-25T18:32:00.000-07:00

Many may not know who George Bonneau is, but he started a company called Crown Publications which published several of Dr. Robert A. Morey's books in the 80's and early 90's. Here is an interview he did with Larry Wessels explaining how Morey breached his contract with Crown Publications when he published his book "Islam Unveiled" (now Islamic Invasion). It is 17:20 minute interview that is enlightening to be sure.

NEWS FLASH! "Mike Stephens Interview" On Dr. Robert A. Morey Exposed!

2008-08-18T01:17:00.000-07:00

For the readers that don't know who Mike Stephens is, his significance as a witness to Dr. Robert Morey's abuses is critical. Mike Stephens after having worked with the late Dr. Walter Martin and later as the producer of the Bible Answer Man show with Hank Hanegraaff left to work for Dr. Bob Morey for a period spanning about 11 years. In the 1990s he worked for the "Research and Education Foundation" (REF) and was the producer of Morey's then radio program "Truth Seekers." He then worked for "Faith Defenders," was the producer of "Bob Morey Live," and was a member of "Faith Community Church," (the church Morey pastors). He parted ways with Dr. Bob in 2005, his testimony and reasons for leaving are found in the four mp3 files below. This interview also explains how Dr. Bob had misinformed Mike about the Wessels brothers and used him in his mail outs as a witness against them. Now the tables have turned as Mike Stephens is now a witness on behalf of the Wessels brothers against Dr. Robert Morey.

Mike Stephens Full-Length Interview 1

Mike Stephens Full-Length Interview 2

Mike Stephens Full-Length Interview 3

Mike Stephens Full-Length Interview 4

[EXCLUSIVE] The Wessels Case Against "Dr." Robert Morey And The Research And Education Foundation Briefly Stated

2008-07-20T22:44:00.000-07:00

During the early 1990's, Larry and Gary Wessels worked as volunteers for the "Research And Education Foundation (REF)." A record of this is found in the 59 page report "A Brief Pictorial History Of The Research And Education Foundation (REF) 1990-1994." During their service with REF, they were both loaning money to the ministry for videos and other ministry works. They did this in good faith keeping records and receipts of all ministry funds and expenses hoping to be repaid. Larry Wessels who was the most involved with REF loaned $28, 918.26, and Gary Wessels loaned $4,066.91. They spoke with Dr. Robert Morey about the money they were loaning to the ministry. This testimony is documented at Dr. Robert A. Morey Exposed! as both audio and video for all to see. The evidence that Dr. Robert A. Morey knew full well of these loans is clearly seen in the 1992 REF Tax Form prepared by Gary Wessels and signed by none other than Dr. Robert A. Morey himself. This form was even mailed by Dr. Bob with his own handwriting on the envelope. This evidence is found in the 27 page report "The Case Of Truth Seeker Bob's Alleged Amended 1992 Tax Return."

This became a great concern for Larry and Gary Wessels which forced them to negotiate the REF loans with Dr. Bob. To settle the dispute, the Moreys and the Wessels formed and signed a
legal document with their respective lawyers present entitled the "AGREEMENT OF THE PARTIES". When it became clear that the Moreys did not want to pay the Wessels back for their loans to REF, a scandal erupted. Dr. Bob began sending national mail outs slandering the Wessels brothers asking for financial support and accusing them of embezzlement. This is documented in the 3 page report "Robert Morey's URGENT WARNING Slandering The Wessels Brothers" Larry Wessels responds to this in his report "Larry Wessels Letter Responding To Robert Morey's URGENT WARNING," and "Morey's REF Vindicated Slandering The Wessels Brothers." There was an arbitration ruling on this issue between the Wessels brothers and the Morey's regarding the REF scandal. The arbitration board ruling was in favor of the Wessels brothers this is found in the 5 page report "Arbitration Board Declarations." Not only has Dr. Bob not paid off the loans to the Wessels brothers, but he states that they were unauthorized and accuses them of stealing money. Several former members of FCC have attested to Morey's slander of the Wessels brothers referring to them as either the "Russell" brothers or the "Wiesel" brothers.

Since that time, many that were personally associated with Morey and his ministries have now left for ethical problems in Morey's character. Especially with the current controversy involving this blog (The Saint Augustinian), Joel Hughes blog, bobmorey.com and OC Weekly to name a few. To get more information you can check the Morey links page. These are people that have been on staff for Morey both with "Faith Defenders" and FCC. Mike and Debbie Stephens who worked with Morey with REF also worked with him in "Faith Defenders" and FCC. The Stephens have attested that Morey has slandered the Wessels brothers over the years. The pdf, audio, and video evidence from the 90's that is being placed on the internet speaks out against the Stephens loyalty to Dr. Bob. But the Stephens have now renounced their loyalty to Dr. Bob and his ministry. They are now on good terms with Larry and Gary Wessels.

I would invite any and all readers who have heard Morey repeat his account of the REF scandal to comment on this blog with their account of what they heard. If anyone has audio of Dr. Bob speaking of this on Bob Morey Live or any other kind, that audio would be appreciated.

More reports on this issue are found at this url and can be subscribed to as an RSS feed.

http://www.fileqube.com/shfolder/10211vNiXWr#d:10211

The mp3s are now also available for subscription as an RSS feed at this url.

http://www.fileqube.com/shfolder/12596JtkZi#d:12596

God bless you all,
Lieutenant Columbo

Dave Ramsey vs. Hussein Obama's socialist bent?

2008-06-25T19:28:00.000-07:00

A couple of weeks ago, I worked late like I sometimes need to do to run my business. It was a nice Tennessee summer evening, and I was enjoying the drive home. About 7:30, as I pulled to a stop light a few blocks from my office, I noticed a light on in the corner office of a friend’s office building. Through the twilight I could make out my friend’s silhouette as he bent over his desk. Being a fellow entrepreneur, I knew what he was doing.

He was looking over some receivables. Some turkey hadn’t paid him, and he was trying to make his accounts balance so he would have the cash to make it another day. In that instant, I had a flashback to some of the ridiculous statements I’ve been hearing on the talking-head news channels and from some individuals during this political year. And I’ll be honest—I instantly felt the heat of anger flow through my body.

Let me tell you why. You see, my friend who I saw working late—we’ll call him Henry—is a great guy. He’s what you want your son to grow up to be. He loves God, his country, his wife, and his kids. He didn’t have the academic advantage of attending a big-name university. Instead, he started installing heating and air systems as a grunt laborer after he graduated from high school. He was and is a very hard and diligent worker, and before long, the boss taught him the trade. But when he was 24, after 6 years of service, the company he was working for got into financial trouble and laid him off.

Henry still had his tools, so he bought an old pickup to haul around his materials and tools, and suddenly he was in business. He knew about heating and air-conditioning, but not about business, so he made a lot of mistakes.

He persisted. He took accounting and management at the community college to learn about business. He started reading books on business, HVAC, marriage, kids, God, and anything else someone he respected recommended. Today he is one of the best-read men I know. Soon, because of his fabulous service and fair prices, he developed a great reputation, and his little business began to grow.

Henry started 15 years ago, and now he has 17 employees whose families are fed because he does a great job. He is in church on Sunday and seldom misses his kids’ Little League games. Sometimes he has to miss a game because some poor soul has their AC go out in the 96-degree Tennessee summer heat, but Henry makes sure they are served. He is, by all standards, a good man. He is, by all standards, what makes America great.

Henry and I are friends, and so he asked me some financial questions last year. I learned in the process that his personal taxable income last year was $328,000. I smiled with pride for this 70-hour a week guy because he is living the dream.

At the stop light that evening, I also thought of another guy I know—and that is where the anger flash came from. We will call him John. While John does not have the same drive Henry has, I can say that he, too, is a good man.

John also graduated from high school and did not attend a big-name university. He went to work at a local factory 15 years ago. When 5:00pm comes around, John has probably already made it to his car in the parking lot. He comes in 5 minutes late, takes frequent breaks, and leaves 5 minutes early. However, to his credit, he is steady and works hard.

Over the years, due to his steadiness and seniority, he has worked his way up to about $75,000 per year in that same factory. He seldom misses his kid’s ballgames, but most nights you will find him in front of the TV where he has become an expert on “American Idol,” “The Biggest Loser,” and who got thrown off the island. When he is not in front of the TV, he spends a LOT of time and money bass fishing on our local lake. He never works over 40 hours a week and hasn’t read a non-fiction book since high school.

This is America, and there is nothing wrong with either set of choices. Nothing wrong, that is, until the politicians and socialists get involved ...

I have seen several elitist people on the talking-head channels make the statement lately that people making over $250,000 per year have a “moral imperative” to pay more in taxes to take care of the country’s problems. This is not only infuriating—it is economically, spiritually, and morally crazy!

Where in the world do these twits get off saying that Henry should be punished for his diligence? If you are John, where do you get off trying to take Henry’s hard-earned money away from him in the name of your misguided “fairness”? If you want to sit on the lake, drink beer, scratch your butt, and bass fish, that is perfectly fine with me. I am not against any of those activities and have engaged in some of them myself at one time or another. But you HAVE NO RIGHT to talk about “moral imperatives” about what other people have earned due to their diligence. That money is not yours! You want some money? Go earn some! Get up, leave the cave, kill something, and drag it home.

We are in a dangerous place in our country today. A segment of our population has decided that it is the government’s job to provide all of their protection, provision, and prosperity. This segment has figured out that government doesn’t have the money to give them everything they want, so somebody else has to pay for it. That is how the “politics of envy” was born. “Tax the rich” has become the mantra of the left, and this political season it has been falsely dubbed a “moral imperative.”

Ninety percent of America’s millionaires are first-generation rich. They are Henry. To tax them because you think it is a “moral imperative” is legalizing governmental theft from our brightest, most charitable, and most productive citizens.

If I can get a law passed that says you must surrender all your cars to the government because it is the “moral imperative” of anyone who owns cars to support the latest governmental program, that would be a violation of private property rights and simply morally wrong. This new “moral imperative” to redistribute wealth is no different from that. It’s the SAME THING!

Please, America, re-think the politics of envy! You are sowing the seeds of our destruction when you punish the Henrys of our culture.

If you think taxing the populace to support government programs is the best way—and I don’t—then at least tax every single person the same! There are very few Henrys out here who would squawk much about paying a set percentage of their income—if everyone else did, too. But this idea of some butt-scratching bass fisherman saying government should tax his neighbor and not him—just because his neighbor has succeeded—must stop.

So the next time an elitist media talking-head starts telling you it is the moral imperative of our culture to tax my friend Henry, change the channel.

The next time you see someone wealthy who feels guilty and is preaching the politics of envy, change the channel.

The next time you see some celebrity who feels guilt over their income preaching socialism, change the channel.

And the next time you run into a misguided, butt-scratching bass fisherman who says the evil rich people in our culture should have their private property confiscated because that is fair… well just shake your head walk away—and make sure to vote against his candidate. If he and his type win, God help America.

Source: Audio / Transcript

Moveon.org's horrible commerical made a mockery...

2008-06-23T15:53:00.000-07:00

Original

Parody

"Dr." Robert A. Morey's Fraudulent Extortion Claims [Youtube]

2008-06-15T16:39:00.000-07:00

And So it begins! The first installment of video clips on Youtube & Google concerning Robert Morey's Fraudulent Extortion Claims.

For more Video's please visit...
[Youtube] Parts 1-7: Youtube Video
[Google] Full Length Video: Google Video

Why Are So Many Christians Attacking Dr. Robert Morey?

2008-05-24T14:03:00.000-07:00

This is a very good question to consider, after all aren't there more important things to do? There is a need to evangelize the cults and world religions for the sake of our Lord Jesus Christ. So what would incite people to put so much time and energy in denouncing a man of God? I would like to explore this question briefly. It could be a sign of Dr. Bob's faithfulness to God, Jesus said that His followers would be persecuted for His name's sake. That is a simple and direct answer to the question, is it not? But is it the only possibility? Is it possible that Dr. Bob is guilty of wrong doing? How can we know? These are also important questions to consider. We all know that Dr. Bob is a recognized Christian scholar who has learned from men like Van Till, Clark, Adams, Walter Martin, Schaeffer and others. (It is not within the scope of this blog article to consider his theology and philosophy but to deal with the subject in question). Knowing his great commitment to the things of God, why would anyone think that Dr. Bob would knowingly wrong another Christian? Sure, Dr. Bob has a personality that rubs many people the wrong way, but nobody's perfect. That is no reason to denounce him as a liar and a slanderer is it?

"The first to plead his case seems right, Until another comes and examines him." (Proverbs 18:17) Scripture clearly teaches us that there are two sides to every story, and to restrict ourselves to one side is not only unwise, but morally wrong. If you are someone who attends "Faith Community Church" (FCC) or is a fan of the ministry of "Faith Defenders" (FD), don't you have the moral responsibility to hear the other side of the story? Let us ask a question. If you meet someone who wants to go into business or ministry with you, wouldn't you want a few references from those who have worked with him in the past? Supposing you find that many of the people that you contact don't know each other in some cases, but all give the exact same description of his dishonest and immoral behavior? Would you ignore it and proceed to work with him after being warned? Bare in mind that Paul said "he must have a good reputation with those outside the church, so that he will not fall into reproach and the snare of the devil." (1Timothy 3:7) We are all sinners and are subject to quarrels within the body of Christ. Obviously just because Dr. Bob has had a falling out with some people could mean that Dr. Bob has been wronged by others. Or perhaps there have been serious misunderstandings?

"Do not receive an accusation against an elder except on the basis of two or three witnesses." (1Timothy 5:19) Scripture teaches us that we should take into account the testimony of witnesses in making these decisions. "But examine everything carefully; hold fast to that which is good" (1Thessalonians 5:21). We are to examine evidence very carefully before we make a commitment to anything or anyone, no matter what the cost. It is this that should be focused on in discussing the issues of the current Dr. Bob controversy. Here are some facts that should be taken into account:

1. Dr. Bob has had two church splits at FCC within less than a year and a half. There have been broken friendships and spirits as a result of these church splits.

2. There is a multitude of witnesses that give the same descriptions of Dr. Bob's immoral and abusive behavior over at least the past 15 years. People that have worked side by side in ministry with Dr. Bob. (Many of which don't know each other).

3. The testimony of witnesses is documented in this blog, Joel's blog, bobmorey.com, and several other places. Gadfly J has provided us with a section entitled "Important Robert A. Morey Links..." With a network of links dealing with the witness testimony.

4. Specifically, lieutenantcolumbo has provided us with the testimony of several witnesses that dealt with Dr. Bob in the 1990s. The site has been updated with new labels that explain what each mp3 covers. The paper documentations regarding Dr. Bob's dealings with the "Research and Education Foundation" (REF) referenced are available to investigate.

http://www.putfile.com/lieutenantcolumbo

There is one more very important and crucial question to consider. If Dr. Bob is guilty of wrong doing, who can hold him accountable? He is not subject to any ecclesiastical authority at his church? One cannot say that he is held accountable by the church members, being that whenever there is conflict with Dr. Bob, people leave to find another church. I would urge attention to the fact that though Dr. Bob, as brilliant a man as he may be, should not be held to a different standard than other Christian leaders. It is crucial that we continue to preach the word to a lost and dying world, but this does not mean we should allow Christians to sin against Christians. This article is written out of concern for the spiritual well being of those who place him as a mentor and spiritual father. I'd like to thank gadfly j for allowing me to share some of my thoughts on this blog.

With Christian love,
lieutenantcolumbo

“Prince Caspian” in Culver...

2008-05-18T16:55:00.000-07:00

Lourdes & I spent a nice evening in Culver City friday night. Our old stomping grounds never looked as different as it did this night. We took my nephew to see “Prince Caspian”, which was a really superb movie.

Prince Caspian depicts an epic battle between good and evil, as the Narnians struggled to free themselves from living under the oppressive reign of someone who is not the rightful king.

A roar from a ram's horn summons the four youthful English siblings back in time to Narnia. The horn blower is Prince Caspian, the rightful heir to Narnia's throne. His legacy is being challenged by his uncle Meraz’s newborn son.

From the depths of the earth, to the birds above, to the cyclonic forces of the inland waters, battles will rage at the roar of the brave lion, Aslan to aid in the conquest of Prince Caspian's throne.

"The fate of all lies with the Destiny of One."

The movie spends a little bit more time on battle scenes then I would have expected. And because of the focus on the warfare and the numerous battles, the film lacked an innocence that the first one so brilliantly conveyed.

It’s a turbulent sequel full of fantasy and fun for everyone and the little dwarfs too! My nephew really enjoyed himself as well.

Is Truth Stretcher Bob’s D.Min really in Apologetics?

2008-05-15T19:54:00.000-07:00

According to Mr. Morey’s Bio on faithdefenders.com, it states that he is the proud honoree of a Doctor of Ministry (D.Min) in Apologetics from Westminster Theological Seminary. However when one visits Westminster Theological Seminary's official site, one will quickly realize that Westminster offers no such D.Min in Apologetics. Here is their official statement regarding what is offered in their D.Min program:

"There are three tracks of study in the D.Min. program: Pastoral Ministry, Pastoral Counseling, and Urban Mission. Within the Counseling Track there is also a specialized emphasis on Korean Studies".

Strange how a “Man of God” who wants you to believe & trust that he is very thorough & exhaustive in his research regarding his sermons, books, tapes and journals, yet he exhibits no real qualms when it comes to stretching the truth in regards to the padding of his educational accolades.

Dead Silence at the BT Blogs…

2008-05-13T20:05:00.000-07:00

I find it awfully ironic how some of the writers over there found it necessary to belittle those who choose to stay anonymous while commenting on their biblicalthought (BT) blog in the past with funny little sound effects, yet it is they who are now silent in regards to the current "Morey conspiracy" (as it never happened).

It is they who are now silent and NOT ALLOWED to say or write anything to defend their precious sacred cow, lest they be placed on church discipline or given over to Satan on some trumped up, bogus charges (as has been done in times past).

Just remember guys, if you close your eyes real tight and tap your shoes together 3 times and repeat the phrase, "There's no biblical scholar like Dr. Bob", "There's no biblical scholar like Dr. Bob", "There's no biblical scholar like Dr. Bob", then ::POOF:: all shall be as nothing ever happened!

This one’s for you fellows, for all the deleting and hiding you now find yourselves partaking in; I resurrected this one just for you…

The 1st Annual Legion of Doom Reunion?

2008-05-12T16:24:00.000-07:00

As I reflected this afternoon, about how our special reunion went this past Saturday, I seemed to be amazed & encouraged at the workings of our gracious God.

Many ex-Faith Community Church (FCC) members showed up this past weekend, not really knowing what to expect, yet they knew God had a plan. There were so many familiar faces that had emerged, some of which we just never were able to say goodbye, but it seemed by God’s providence that he had reunited us all together yet again. I also met some new friends that had issues well after my departure at FCC. And it broke my heart that they too had to experience the cold heartedness of FCC and their ridiculous shunning practices.

Some had raised the question, “Are we all trying so desperately to re-create that joy we had experienced there in days past at FCC, as some have suggested”? It sure didn’t come across that way. Many of us where encouraged by one another’s exodus testimony as well as the many ministry opportunities since our departures.

(Legion of Doom members from Left to Right)
Dustin: aka Bizarro, Joey: aka Sinestro, Clark: aka Lex Luthor,
Mr. Mike: aka Toyman, John: aka Scarecrow, Mike: aka the Riddler,
Mark: aka Captain Cold, Joel: aka Brainiac

Loads of tears were shed, and much forgiveness was received. Was Robert Morey’s name brought up? Sure, how could it not have been? It seemed however, when his name was brought up, many of the faces seemed to portray pity for the man.

Overall I believe the consensus was, much prayer is still needed. And so we continue to pray for those poor blinded souls there at Faith Community Church. We pray God might bring a quick resolution to this Morey problem. Might Justice and Mercy ring true!

In the end, God was and will continue to be glorified!

Happy Mother's Day!

2008-05-11T16:02:00.001-07:00

To The Blinded Disciples @ biblicalthought...

2008-04-15T15:23:00.000-07:00

Submitted by one of my blog readers who I wish to keep anonymous [revised]...

The Anonymous author has wished this article to be taken down at this time. The Comments however are still in tact.

A few Good Friday thoughts to ponder...

2008-03-21T15:00:00.000-07:00

It is a strange and terrible perversion of the gospel to say that since Jesus suffered for me, therefore I don’t have to suffer — I can be comfortable and prosperous.

The stumbling block of the cross is removed if we say he became homeless that I might have the finest of houses.

He was rejected by men that I might be admired among men.

He lived in poverty that I might live in luxury.

He endured suffering that I might enjoy ease.

Jesus taught just the opposite: "If any man would come after me, let him take up his cross daily and follow me."

If we suffer with him, we shall be glorified with him (Romans 8:17).

Christ suffered for you, leaving you an example that you should follow in his steps (1 Peter 2:21).

-- John Piper

Faith Community Church of the OC in Peril...

2008-03-11T15:59:00.000-07:00

Lourdes, I and many others who have left FCC, are praying fervently (as we have been since the day God ushered us out) for those brothers & sisters at Faith Community Church in Orange County California who are in this current hardship….
For those that must make difficult choices, we pray God’s wisdom would be magnified in your hearts & minds…

May the Holy Spirit guide and truly direct your steps (Pro 16:9)…

May you beyond any doubt be at peace amongst all the division caused by one man…

URGENT! URGENT! To Mr. Morey a.k.a. "Truth Seeker Bob", we implore you to REPENT! Woe to you! May God in his Perfect Providence have Mercy upon you!

To God be the Glory!

Romans Series by John Piper... The Best Out There!

2008-03-05T18:29:00.000-08:00

The Complete Romans Series
The Greatest Letter Ever Written: 1998-2006

After 18 years of preaching at Bethlehem Baptist Church, John Piper felt the time had come to preach through Paul's letter to the Romans. "The glory of Christ, who is the image of God (2 Corinthians 4:4), seems more glorious to me now than it ever has. And there is no greater exposition of the Gospel of God than the book of Romans… I have a deep confidence that the best way to be lastingly relevant is to stand on rock-solid, durable old truths, than jumping from one pragmatic bandwagon to another. Romans is as solid and durable and reliable and unshakable as truth can get." Come and worship through the Book of Romans with us!

Note on the format: MP3 DVDs can be played in computers with DVD drives and some DVD players. For best results put this DVD in the computer's DVD drive and copy the MP3 files to your computer's media player. They will not play in standard CD players.

Order NOW! or Listen for FREE Here!

--
I actually own this series. Since I bought it a year ago... my understanding of the book of Romans has truly been expanded. The book of Romans reveals God's Love, Grace and Sovereignty to say the least... Piper's teaching on the book of Romans over the years has shown how God has truly blessed this ministry.

I've been making copies (as Piper's ministry encourages) and passing them along to friends and family. As I have stated in the past, some ministries are truly about the business of Christ and not the business of profit and name recognition alone. May the Lord continue to bless John Piper and those of his ilk (such as Mark Driscoll, Al Mohler, Don Carson, Michael Horton, etc.). At the same time may God continue to chastise those that are destroying godly relationships, church fellowship, and the precious lives of God's people, all for the benefit of their own narcissistic ego. ~joey

The Diotrephes Syndrome...

2006-04-15T17:11:00.000-07:00

A Strategy for Using Church Discipline as a Weapon
Written by: Craig W. Booth

How do you stop the discerning faithful in the church from disrupting your plans to sneak in a false doctrine or two? Your biblical model is Diotrephes. He found an ideal mechanism to silence those whom opposed him and was even able to make it seem as though his approach was spiritual. Even grander, this approach can be used in personal relationships. We will explore how.

I wrote something to the church; but Diotrephes, who loves to be first among them, does not accept what we say. For this reason, if I come, I will call attention to his deeds which he does, unjustly accusing us with wicked words; and not satisfied with this, he himself does not receive the brethren, either, and he forbids those who desire to do so and puts them out of the church. Beloved, do not imitate what is evil, but what is good. The one who does good is of God; the one who does evil has not seen God. (3 John 1:9-11)

Ambition

It is unclear whether Diotrephes was the formal elder (overseer/pastor) of the church or whether he simply desired to be especially prominent. In reality, this is irrelevant because it is equally true of pastors or laymen that they can become "ambitious for the place of first distinction." Ambitious for preeminence in the church is entirely different than being desirous to do the work of shepherding/pastoring. Ambition for prestige and control is what leads to "lording it over the flock" (1 Peter 5:3), that is, to become the monarch of the flock and the object of adoration, and it might be added, some small amount of intimidating influence. Contrast that with being desirous to do the work of pastor, which is to dedicate oneself to service, to study, to counseling, and to openly debating and refuting doctrinal errors.

Poor Doctrine

Diotrephes did not accept the teaching of the apostles (v.9). Given his standing of prestige in the church it should be readily evident that he was likely a Christian, and maybe even the majority of his doctrine was "orthodox." Nonetheless, some aspect of Diotrephes doctrine, probably the specific "something" to which John refers when he says he "wrote to the church," was not aligned with the apostles teaching.

Now, the problem for Diotrephes is that he had run out of arguments and Scripture to justify his stance. Some do-gooder in the body was obviously pressing Diotrephes to give a biblically sound defense for his corrupted doctrine and he was unable to do so. In short, he was trapped. How do you shout down the discerning individuals who just will not shut up and who refuse to stop demanding an answer for the false hope you have articulated so well?

But a Really Good Strategy

Diotrephes used a wonderful and almost unassailable two-pronged attack. An almost perfect strategy. First he attacked the character of the apostles, not their doctrines or theology, but their character, "unjustly accusing us with wicked words." This is so precious. For it should be noted that Diotrephes was able to sidestep his real problem. He could not address the doctrines because he had no Scriptural leg to support him, so he attacked the character of those with good doctrine in order to discredit them and by association, everything they said.

How beautiful that strategy is. How do you counter a character assassination? He said, she said, someone said, all leaves impressions in the minds of the hearers and truth becomes secondary and ultimately lost. The focus is no longer doctrine but whether the person has a good reputation, which by the way was just defamed by the very accuser who is trying to hide his doctrinal failings in the first place.

Prong two is the stroke of genius to the master plan. Cut off fellowship between those who have true biblical discernment and those on whom you are trying to impose the erroneous doctrine. Once fellowship is broken, it becomes impossible for anyone to contradict you. Those who remain in fellowship are those whom you have already won to your point-of-view (who lack appropriate discernment) or are those who are too intimidated to invoke the Word of God against you or against your faulty doctrine. The result is that no one is left to raise any dissent or to contradict you, or worse, raise a valid biblical debate.

In other words, you win by default. You have silenced all your detractors and you win. You do not have to be right, because you win. And by winning, you do not mean that you have attained good doctrine but that you have retained control in spite of your lack of answers and in spite of your poor doctrine. You win, the others lose.

How do you break fellowship between the discerning and the deluded? This requires careful scheming and impeccable execution. You must "put them out of the church" just as Diotrephes did. The only known mechanism that has the appearance of Scriptural and ethical propriety is by using "church discipline." Not genuine "church discipline" however, but pseudo (fake / imitation) church discipline.

Genuine church discipline is all about bringing the sinner back into fellowship by encouraging his repentance from a sin. To encourage his repentance you must privately rebuke him, publicly rebuke him in front of the church, then ultimately treat him as you would any sinner on the street (Matthew 18). Of course, this means no longer inviting him to your breaking-of-bread church services, asking him to take on deacon duties, or allowing him to teach, pray, or read Scripture during meetings of the church. Every interaction will be polite, filled with quotations of Scripture that entreat him to confess his sins and turn from them, always inviting him back to fellowship with God and the church.

This, of course, will never do for your purposes. You goal is not restoration to fellowship, but to permanently sever it. You do not want the Bible-thumpers being lovingly confronted with Scripture because you have none to offer. And frankly, you are the sinner (introducing improper doctrine remember?), so you do not want or need the discerning ones to repent from any sins, you just want them to go away and not come back. OK, you would also settle for them to just stay quiet and let you run things, but you know that someone who has sufficient discernment to know the Word also knows he is obligated to speak the truth in love, always and often, so you know they will not stay silent.

Executing an Evil Strategy Well

The solution is to level a charge that is improvable, and most importantly, is impossible from which to repent. Among church power brokers the favored charge is "factiousness" (Titus 3:10). Paul says that you should reject a factious man after one or two warnings. Issue these warnings generically from the pulpit, offer no names or specifics, just make generalized warnings later you can refer to those warnings as already being issued and streamline the entire process.

Then defame and slander their character by adding the charge of anger because those who are passionate about the Word always express emotion sooner or later out of frustration at not being heard so you will always be able to point to some tangible public display of emotion. Oh, never mind that Titus 3 actually defines a factious man as being the one who is introducing destructive and error laden doctrines and who is dividing the fellowship of the church based on improper motives because almost no one is discerning enough in the church to look up the passage on their own, much less properly interpret it in context (hmm, the irony is that while you are falsely accusing the righteous man of being factious Titus 3 actually defines the real factious man as being you). The charge of factiousness itself is sufficient to win the day.

Then, out the door the trouble-making Bible-quoting discerners will go. Most will leave of their own accord anyway, having had enough of their characters being maligned. The few that stick around can easily be sent through a pseudo-church discipline meeting and they too will soon be gone. And since they have nothing they can repent from, they will never return to plague your fellowship again. In fact, this form of ungodly "discipline" might best be characterized by the term "shunning" because its sole goal is to irrevocably destroy fellowship. However, you must never use that term in public because it might draw attention to fact that what you are doing to these innocent individuals really is shunning which is strictly an illegitimate act; we are nowhere called to destroy fellowships but to restore them.

Only One Complication

There is one down side to the tactic. John calls the Diotrephes strategy both "wicked" and "evil." To implement such an approach in the church, in a personal relationship, or in a family setting requires that you leave your interest in obeying the Word of God behind, that you stop loving the victims (love is defined as doing things for their benefit not yours--1 Corinthians 13:5), and that you determine that you are willing to tolerate living in a state of perpetual sin. This is a hard thing for a true believer and follower of our Lord to do, but if you want to act on your ambition to become preeminent in the local church, able to implement whatever doctrine strikes your fancy, and not have to answer to those who insist on biblical accuracy, what choice do you really have?

Really, what choice do you have?

Beloved, do not imitate what is evil, but what is good. The one who does good is of God; the one who does evil has not seen God. (3 John 1:11)

Source: http://www.thefaithfulword.org/diotrephes.html

What of this Augustinian?

2006-03-05T15:03:00.000-08:00

Who am I? Why was I born? Why must sickness come about my way? These are the questions that baffled me for such a long while. Thank God Almighty for the doctrines of Grace. About four years ago (after the death of my sister) the Lord brought me to the reformed faith; and I credit God ALONE for that revelation. [I tend not to worship at the feet of any man, nor make idol’s of their teachings or their worldly accolades, no matter the height of their IQs or how many doctorates they claim to have (Ephesians 4:6, John 12:43)].

The fact remains; I am a sinner, and a very good one at that. I’ve done many things in my past that I am today ashamed of, however I’ve been bought with a price, and that price was the death of my savior Jesus Christ; by which I have been forgiven for all time.

To be chastised is a special privilege; it has proven over the years that I am loved deeply by my Father in heaven.

Since my first birth I’ve had many health problems, but by God’s grace these health issues have brought glory and honor to my Lord. Through the years he has taught me many lessons in suffering and hardships, yet through it all he has kept me preserved.

Many people call me harsh, mean and frank; and yes I’ve offended many. Yet God in his mercy is still teaching me compassion for those that are lost, hurting and for those that just plain disagree with me. I know not all the answers to life’s questions, nor do I claim to know all of God’s word, but I will always (by God’s Grace) try my hardest to point one back to the cross.

The Spiritual gifts that have been entrusted to me are of the hardest gifts to exercise. Yet my hope will always be in Christ to direct my steps, even when I lean on my own understanding and blow it. These gifts have cost me friendships, yet still I look to Christ. They have cost me family relationships, yet still I look to the cross (Matthew 10:20-22). I will not waver nor compromise my convictions, for the sake of mere men and their foolish doctrines (Romans 3:4).

My hope is to continue to be used by God in any way he so chooses, for the furtherance and encouragement of HIS Church.

I want to thank all of those who are still standing by my side even through all the hardships. It brings joy to my heart to be like-minded and Christ centered with all of you; as apposed to being friends based on men and their goofy biblical gimmicks ("Bring your Bible and your brains"). What a joke! LOL.

May the Sovereign God of the Universe continue to bless his precious Elect! Blessed God three in one!